Faltering economy ties war as top issue

[DrJohn]

According to an AP/Ipsos poll, released Friday, the faltering economy has tied the war in Iraq as the top issue in this campaign.

I know that some feel that the economy is getting better but apparently most Americans disagree.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22621994/

[red states rule]

What faltering economy?

[DrJohn]

What faltering economy?


It would appear that a majority of Americans see a recession coming.

Didn't the repubs discuss this in their debate???

[red states rule]

It would appear that a majority of Americans see a recession coming.

Didn't the repubs discuss this in their debate???

I have heard about that coming recession for the last 4 years

Here are the current economic stats

Real GDP grew at a strong 4.9 percent annual rate in the third quarter of 2007. The economy has now experienced six years of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8 percent a year since 2001.


Real after-tax per capita personal income has risen by 11.7 percent – an average of more than $3,550 per person – since President Bush took office.


Over the course of this Administration, productivity growth has averaged 2.6 percent per year. This growth is well above average productivity growth in the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.


The Federal budget deficit is down to 1.2 percent of GDP (in FY07), well below the 40-year average. Economic growth contributed to the highest tax revenues on record and a $250 billion drop in the deficit over the last three years.


U.S. exports in October 2007 were 13.7 percent higher than exports in October 2006.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/economy/

[DrJohn]

I have heard about that coming recession for the last 4 years

Here are the current economic stats

Real GDP grew at a strong 4.9 percent annual rate in the third quarter of 2007. The economy has now experienced six years of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8 percent a year since 2001.


Real after-tax per capita personal income has risen by 11.7 percent – an average of more than $3,550 per person – since President Bush took office.


Over the course of this Administration, productivity growth has averaged 2.6 percent per year. This growth is well above average productivity growth in the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.


The Federal budget deficit is down to 1.2 percent of GDP (in FY07), well below the 40-year average. Economic growth contributed to the highest tax revenues on record and a $250 billion drop in the deficit over the last three years.


U.S. exports in October 2007 were 13.7 percent higher than exports in October 2006.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/economy/


You should probably send that information to the republcan presidental candidates. I don't think that all of them got the memo.

[red states rule]

You should probably send that information to the republcan presidental candidates. I don't think that all of them got the memo.

The economic doom and gloomers have not been right on any of their forcasts. The US economy is in good shape despite the issues of high oil prices, and falling housing prices

Yet, the liberal media would have you believe we are days aways from another great depression

[DrJohn]

The economic doom and gloomers have not been right on any of their forcasts. The US economy is in good shape despite the issues of high oil prices, and falling housing prices

Yet, the liberal media would have you believe we are days aways from another great depression


So the repubs are forming their platforms based on info gleaned from the 'liberal' media?

Wow!

[red states rule]

So the repubs are forming their platforms based on info gleaned from the 'liberal' media?

Wow!

From waht I have seen Republicans wantmore tax cuts to fuel the US economy - while Dems want to raise taxes which would suck the fuel out of the economy

Where is the US ecoomy hurting"?

Inflation, and unemployment is low. Wages are rising, productivity continues to go up, and most economic indicators are going in the right direction

Interest rates are fallling

[red states rule]

It would appear that a majority of Americans see a recession coming.

Didn't the repubs discuss this in their debate???

It would seem Republican voters know what they want - more supply economics.

Which is the way to go if you want a strong economy



GOP Candidates Go Supply-Side
By Lawrence Kudlow

The New Hampshire primary may not have confirmed who's going to win the GOP nomination (or the Democratic nomination, for that matter). But it just may have told us where voting Republicans stand on the economy and supply-side policy.

Exit polls in New Hampshire reveal that the most important issue for Republican voters is the economy, at 31 percent, trailed by the war in Iraq, at 24 percent, illegal immigration, at 23 percent, and terrorism, at 18 percent.

Overall, 54 percent of New Hampshire voters said that reducing the budget deficit is the highest priority for the next president, while 44 percent believe in cutting taxes. And it's from here that an interesting split develops between Sen. John McCain and Gov. Mitt Romney. While McCain leads Romney 41 percent to 21 percent on the economy, McCain is the voters' deficit-cutter of choice, while Romney is the voters' tax-cutter of choice.

Of the deficit cutters, McCain boasted a 20 percent lead over Romney, 46 percent to 26 percent. Of the tax cutters, Romney led McCain by 10 points, 37 percent to 27 percent.

McCain, of course, voted against the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, while Romney didn't support them as governor of Massachusetts. Noteworthy, however, is the fact that McCain favored the Reagan tax cuts in the 1980s, while Romney indicated a lack of support for the Reagan program during his unsuccessful 1994 Senate run against Ted Kennedy.

for the complete article

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/gop_candidates_go_supplyside.html

[typomaniac]

What faltering economy?

Get a job.

(The board will be way better off, too!)

[April15]

I don't see any good economy! Maybe work is slow because I have a good imagination?

[LiberalNation]

If people see a recession that means there will prolly be one. A lot has to do with consumer confidence tho spending hasn't gone dowm much. The problem will be if all this spending is on credit, will the credit industry take a down turn like home buying. Anyway, that's my simplestic view gleened from talking heads on the news.

[Hugh Lincoln]

So the repubs are forming their platforms based on info gleaned from the 'liberal' media?

Yes, except Ron Paul. That's why they call him "crazy."

[red states rule]

I don't see any good economy! Maybe work is slow because I have a good imagination?

Trying taking off your liberal blinders. We do have a 95% employment rate despite all the doom and gloom from the left

[red states rule]

Get a job.

(The board will be way better off, too!)

Thanks for showing once again how little you contribute to any thread and all discussions

[red states rule]

If people see a recession that means there will prolly be one. A lot has to do with consumer confidence tho spending hasn't gone dowm much. The problem will be if all this spending is on credit, will the credit industry take a down turn like home buying. Anyway, that's my simplestic view gleened from talking heads on the news.

Libs have been "seeing" a recession for 4 years - and it has not happened as of yet.

[DrJohn]

Trying taking off your liberal blinders. We do have a 95% employment rate despite all the doom and gloom from the left


Yet more and more folks are working for minimum wage, not a living wage.
Even the Wall street folks are seeing the coming recession, so they ask for more federal intervention.

It must be nice to have those republican blinders on. That way you see only the rosy picture painted by Bush.
Even the other republican leaders have cast aside those blinders and see the real world.

Oh well, I guess you can hope that saying it isn't so, makes it that way.

[DrJohn]

Libs have been "seeing" a recession for 4 years - and it has not happened as of yet.

I guess thise republican presidential candidates are liberals, then.

[red states rule]

Yet more and more folks are working for minimum wage, not a living wage.
Even the Wall street folks are seeing the coming recession, so they ask for more federal intervention.

It must be nice to have those republican blinders on. That way you see only the rosy picture painted by Bush.
Even the other republican leaders have cast aside those blinders and see the real world.

Oh well, I guess you can hope that saying it isn't so, makes it that way.

And that is more liberal BS

Wages have been going up, and a study of IRS tax returns showed how folks have been actually moving up into the income level

[DrJohn]

And that is more liberal BS

Wages have been going up, and a study of IRS tax returns showed how folks have been actually moving up into the income level


more conservative, rich man, bullshit...

[red states rule]

more conservative, rich man, bullshit...

Nope, based on facts - something Dems should try to rely on for a change

The Treasury study examined a huge sample of 96,700 income tax returns from 1996 and 2005 for Americans over the age of 25. The study tracks what happened to these tax filers over this 10-year period. One of the notable, and reassuring, findings is that nearly 58% of filers who were in the poorest income group in 1996 had moved into a higher income category by 2005. Nearly 25% jumped into the middle or upper-middle income groups, and 5.3% made it all the way to the highest quintile.
Of those in the second lowest income quintile, nearly 50% moved into the middle quintile or higher, and only 17% moved down. This is a stunning show of upward mobility, meaning that more than half of all lower-income Americans in 1996 had moved up the income scale in only 10 years.

Also encouraging is the fact that the after-inflation median income of all tax filers increased by an impressive 24% over the same period. Two of every three workers had a real income gain--which contradicts the Huckabee-Edwards-Lou Dobbs spin about stagnant incomes. This is even more impressive when you consider that "median" income and wage numbers are often skewed downward because the U.S. has had a huge influx of young workers and immigrants in the last 20 years. They start their work years with low wages, dragging down the averages.

Those who start at the bottom but hold full-time jobs nonetheless enjoyed steady income gains. The Treasury study found that those tax filers who were in the poorest income quintile in 1996 saw a near doubling of their incomes (90.5%) over the subsequent decade. Those in the highest quintile, on the other hand, saw only modest income gains (10%). The nearby table tells the story, which is that the poorer an individual or household was in 1996 the greater the percentage income gain after 10 years.

Only one income group experienced an absolute decline in real income--the richest 1% in 1996. Those households lost 25.8% of their income. Moreover, more than half (57.4%) of the richest 1% in 1996 had dropped to a lower income group by 2005. Some of these people might have been "rich" merely for one year, or perhaps for several, as they hit their peak earning years or had some capital gains windfall. Others may simply have not been able to keep up with new entrepreneurs and wealth creators.

for the complete article

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110010855

[DrJohn]

I couldn't get the link to work...

[red states rule]

I couldn't get the link to work...

Ok, try this one. It worked for me

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010855

[DrJohn]

OK, so why are the feds monkeying with the interest rates.
Why is Wall St worried?
Why are the conservative candidates concerned?

Why???????

[red states rule]

OK, so why are the feds monkeying with the interest rates.
Why is Wall St worried?
Why are the conservative candidates concerned?

Why???????

The Fed is doing its job

Wall street hates any uncertainity

People should always be concerned with the unfounded rants of doom and gloom

Care to retact your previous post since I provided the link showing people ARE makinf more money?

[red states rule]

BTW Dr John - here are more facts that goes against your doom and gloom talking points


1) Equity markets posted solid gains and price multiples are still low. As of last Friday morning, the Dow Jones Industrial Average had gained about 7 percent for the year, while yielding about 2.25 percent, providing investors with a total return of more than 9 percent. The Nasdaq Composite Index had climbed more than 10 percent, while the Standard & Poor's 500 Index had provided a total return in the 5.5 percent range. There are no signs of irrational exuberance. The price-to- earnings ratio for the S&P 500, for example, finished the year at less than 19, safely nestled in the historical comfort range.

2) Households are wealthier. In part because of rising equity markets, household net worth increased in 2007, according to the latest numbers from the Federal Reserve. At the start of the year, net worth was $56.1 trillion. By the third quarter, this climbed to $58.6 trillion and probably rose again in the fourth quarter. If changes in wealth affect the economy through consumption, then the affect will be favorable.

3) Congress did nothing. Gridlock has historically been good for the U.S. economy for a simple reason: New laws are invariably worse than the ones they replace. Witness Sarbanes- Oxley. With the Democrats taking control of Congress, there was a real risk that taxes, in particular, would be increased. With the economy softening already, it is great news that this didn't happen.

4) The Federal Reserve did something. From interest rate reductions to the introduction of a new auction mechanism to get needed reserves to struggling banks, the Fed has responded to the weakening economy with multiple policy moves. Thus, we have learned that Ben Bernanke's Fed will likely be a competent actor should things get worse. This is good news for nervous markets, though there was no guarantee this would be the case. The Fed did, after all, aggravate -- and may have caused -- the Great Depression.

5) The world economy had another blow-out year. According to the latest Moody's Economy.com forecast, world gross domestic product grew by 3.9 percent in 2007 after rising 3.6 percent in 2006. In spite of the gloom in the headlines, the most important news in 2007 was that economic freedom is spreading, and the benefits to the world's citizens of this are skyrocketing.

6) The trade deficit declined. As our trading partners become wealthier, they demand more of our products. At the same time, the weaker dollar has made U.S. exports cheaper. Exports have boomed, and the real trade deficit has narrowed, from $624.4 billion in 2006 to an estimated $562.4 billion in 2007.

7) Even in the face of the housing-market bust, economic growth was solid. If someone told me last December that construction of single-family homes would drop in 2007 by 27 percent, about the current estimate from Economy.com, then I would have expected the economy to be in recession. But a collapse of that scale did occur, and annual GDP growth, according to the latest Economy.com estimate, was about 2.5 percent. There are plenty of developed countries that would take that type of growth every year.

8) Job creation was robust. According to the latest jobs report, which covers data through November, the U.S. economy added 1.3 million jobs on net in 2007. The unemployment rate was 4.6 percent in January, and finished the year a smidgen higher at 4.7 percent. Both levels are very low by historical standards.

9) The federal budget deficit declined. According to the Congressional Budget Office's monthly budget review, the federal budget deficit was only $163 billion for fiscal 2007, a large decline from the $248 billion deficit in 2006. This decline was actually bigger than had been forecast by the CBO last January.

10) Inflation risk is low. Although energy prices surged, core inflation was up only 2.3 percent for the year ended in November, about half a percentage point lower than it was in late 2006. This is great news, making it relatively riskless for the Fed to cut interest rates next year if there are more signs of trouble
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_hassett&sid=a.VtABIaN5ck

[typomaniac]

Thanks for showing once again how little you contribute to any thread and all discussions

And thank YOU for showing once again how you're all quantity and zero quality.

[red states rule]

And thank YOU for showing once again how you're all quantity and zero quality.

So all the posts proving Dr John's liberal crap went over your pointy head?

Like I told MM, try www.hop.com, and get back to me later

[PostmodernProphet]

What faltering economy?

the one in Michigan.....

[red states rule]

the one in Michigan.....

There will always be pockets where the local economy is not as good as the national economy

The unions, and the Dems running the state are the main reasons MI's economy is faltering

[PostmodernProphet]

There will always be pockets where the local economy is not as good as the national economy

The unions, and the Dems running the state are the main reasons MI's economy is faltering

well, these pockets are running empty....three of my regular clients have gone out of business in the last three months.......

[red states rule]

well, these pockets are running empty....three of my regular clients have gone out of business in the last three months.......

They can relocate their business in a more business friendly state. MI has caused most of their own problems. Sky high taxes and union thuigs

[DrJohn]

The Fed is doing its job

Wall street hates any uncertainity

People should always be concerned with the unfounded rants of doom and gloom

Care to retact your previous post since I provided the link showing people ARE makinf more money?


Nah....

Your article quotes stats thru 2005 and this is 2008.

[red states rule]

Nah....

Your article quotes stats thru 2005 and this is 2008.

From my link

The Treasury study examined a huge sample of 96,700 income tax returns from 1996 and 2005 for Americans over the age of 25. The study tracks what happened to these tax filers over this 10-year period. One of the notable, and reassuring, findings is that nearly 58% of filers who were in the poorest income group in 1996 had moved into a higher income category by 2005. Nearly 25% jumped into the middle or upper-middle income groups, and 5.3% made it all the way to the highest quintile.
Of those in the second lowest income quintile, nearly 50% moved into the middle quintile or higher, and only 17% moved down. This is a stunning show of upward mobility, meaning that more than half of all lower-income Americans in 1996 had moved up the income scale in only 10 years.

[DrJohn]

From my link

The Treasury study examined a huge sample of 96,700 income tax returns from 1996 and 2005 for Americans over the age of 25. The study tracks what happened to these tax filers over this 10-year period. One of the notable, and reassuring, findings is that nearly 58% of filers who were in the poorest income group in 1996 had moved into a higher income category by 2005. Nearly 25% jumped into the middle or upper-middle income groups, and 5.3% made it all the way to the highest quintile.
Of those in the second lowest income quintile, nearly 50% moved into the middle quintile or higher, and only 17% moved down. This is a stunning show of upward mobility, meaning that more than half of all lower-income Americans in 1996 had moved up the income scale in only 10 years.


Yep, 1996 thru 2005.

I read it.

[red states rule]

Yep, 1996 thru 2005.

I read it.

So much for the liberal line about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer

[DrJohn]

So much for the liberal line about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer


Your hatred of the libs would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

[red states rule]

Your hatred of the libs would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

I find it funny libs say pointing out their BS is hate.

You postes this when I said how wages are rising

more conservative, rich man, bullshit...

and it has been refuted

Is this post also hate?

[April15]

Trying taking off your liberal blinders. We do have a 95% employment rate despite all the doom and gloom from the left
I don't think it is blinders that are the problem. It is the absolute lack of work. No calls for estimates even since DEC. 2 . In thirty years I have never been this worried.

[MtnBiker]

Estimates for what?

[April15]

Estimates for what?I'm sorry, I am a concrete contractor in California. I also had an accounting and tax business hence the name april15. I had to go online with accounting but not concrete. That is why it is april15 instead of BF Concrete Cons.

[Yurt]

Yet more and more folks are working for minimum wage, not a living wage.

Oh well, I guess you can hope that saying it isn't so, makes it that way.

:lol:

$8 bucks an hour is not a living wage? LOL Dude, go live somewhere else. Your fake "living" wage, that is actually pawned off as "minimum" wage is bullshit. Everything has gone up on price as a DIRECT correlation to this wage increase. Just ask my favorite burrito shack.

You live in a dream, make the MW go up and all is good, right? BS.

[Yurt]

I'm sorry, I am a concrete contractor in California. I also had an accounting and tax business hence the name april15. I had to go online with accounting but not concrete. That is why it is april15 instead of BF Concrete Cons.
..........

[DrJohn]

:lol:

$8 bucks an hour is not a living wage? LOL Dude, go live somewhere else. Your fake "living" wage, that is actually pawned off as "minimum" wage is bullshit. Everything has gone up on price as a DIRECT correlation to this wage increase. Just ask my favorite burrito shack.

You live in a dream, make the MW go up and all is good, right? BS.


The MW is 8 bucks an hour?
Where?

It is not $8.00 an hour around here.

[red states rule]

The MW is 8 bucks an hour?
Where?

It is not $8.00 an hour around here.

I thought I posted a link showing the liberal spin about all the new jobs that have been added to the economy are minimum wage jobs is false

But I do understand being a liberal, you can't admit that the economy for a Republican President who cut taxes is a good one

[DrJohn]

I thought I posted a link showing the liberal spin about all the new jobs that have been added to the economy are minimum wage jobs is false

But I do understand being a liberal, you can't admit that the economy for a Republican President who cut taxes is a good one


My question is:

Where is the minimun wage now at $8.00 an hour?

[PostmodernProphet]

They can relocate their business in a more business friendly state. MI has caused most of their own problems. Sky high taxes and union thuigs

actually, they can't.....they are landlords who's tenants have moved to more friendly states and who have lost their properties through foreclosure.....it's kind of hard to pick up an apartment building and move it.......

and whether the idiots who voted for Granholm caused our own problems or not, the economy still sucks in Michigan.....

[red states rule]

My question is:

Where is the minimun wage now at $8.00 an hour?

I have seen places like McDonalds offering $12/hr for closers. Very few places offer minimum wage, and there are few workers who make minimum wage

[red states rule]

actually, they can't.....they are landlords who's tenants have moved to more friendly states and who have lost their properties through foreclosure.....it's kind of hard to pick up an apartment building and move it.......

and whether the idiots who voted for Granholm caused our own problems or not, the economy still sucks in Michigan.....

In most cases, forclosures are due to higher property taxes and insurance rate increases. It causes the monthly payment to increase as well as a excrow account shortage. It gets back to the local politicans

If you are dumb enough to vote for Dems - you have to live with it

[TheSage]

Real after-tax per capita personal income has risen by 11.7 percent – an average of more than $3,550 per person – since President Bush took office.




But dumbass, this is not how the gains are distributed. it's not "averaged out". Some are getting very rich, most are going in to credit card debt like never before.

[red states rule]

But dumbass, this is not how the gains are distributed. it's not "averaged out". Some are getting very rich, most are going in to credit card debt like never before.

Sorry if the good economic news depresses you - I can tell from your insult you do not like hearing the postivie economic news

[TheSage]

Sorry if the good economic news depresses you - I can tell from your insult you do not like hearing the postivie economic news

Our economic growth is based on people going into massive personal debt. That's messed up. It gives a false impression of actual wealth and security.

[red states rule]

Our economic growth is based on people going into massive personal debt. That's messed up. It gives a false impression of actual wealth and security.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2007/toptenmyths/mediamyths.asp

[TheSage]

http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2007/toptenmyths/mediamyths.asp

What's your point? It's good to ignore massive personal debt when assessing the economy?

[DrJohn]

I have seen places like McDonalds offering $12/hr for closers. Very few places offer minimum wage, and there are few workers who make minimum wage


I don't know about your part of the country but a LOT of jobs around here still pay minimum wage.
My wife works in a nursing home and makes less than $7.00 an hour.

[red states rule]

I don't know about your part of the country but a LOT of jobs around here still pay minimum wage.
My wife works in a nursing home and makes less than $7.00 an hour.

I live in a rural area in PA. So, if your wife feels she is worth more money, move on to another job, or another line of work

It is not the governments place to set wages, and tell companies how much to pay their workers

[PostmodernProphet]

In most cases, forclosures are due to higher property taxes and insurance rate increases. It causes the monthly payment to increase as well as a excrow account shortage. It gets back to the local politicans

If you are dumb enough to vote for Dems - you have to live with it

1) I haven't voted for a single Democrat since I moved here in 1978....
2) foreclosures also occur when your apartments are vacant because the tenants have all lost their jobs or moved to Las Vegas to find work....

[red states rule]

1) I haven't voted for a single Democrat since I moved here in 1978....
2) foreclosures also occur when your apartments are vacant because the tenants have all lost their jobs or moved to Las Vegas to find work....

If things are bad in your area, then move. If enough people flee the stupid liberal policies, the state will have to change

Yes, if you have no renters you do not collect rents - then it would make the task of paying the mortgage rather difficult

[April15]

1) I haven't voted for a single Democrat since I moved here in 1978....
2) foreclosures also occur when your apartments are vacant because the tenants have all lost their jobs or moved to Las Vegas to find work....I went against my better judgment and voted for Raygun as president. Even though his actions in California screwed it up. I was right to have reservations about him.
What landlords do here is to rent to illegals for cash and claim the apartments are empty on Schedule E for the loss. Maybe they could do that there?

[LiberalNation]

Odds are growing for economic recession

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080113/ap_on_bi_ge/recession_odds;_ylt=ArUWzom8v7gTwziGGHnmb_0DW7oF

Just some latest media news of the subject.

[red states rule]

I went against my better judgment and voted for Raygun as president. Even though his actions in California screwed it up. I was right to have reservations about him.
What landlords do here is to rent to illegals for cash and claim the apartments are empty on Schedule E for the loss. Maybe they could do that there?

So you loved the economy under Peanut Carter? Pres Reagan had a mess to clean up after Peanut - and he did such a great job, Pres Reagan won reelection 48 states in 1984

Funny, we have a lib here defending tax cheats. I thought not paying taxes was an unforgivable sin to liberals

[red states rule]

Odds are growing for economic recession

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080113/ap_on_bi_ge/recession_odds;_ylt=ArUWzom8v7gTwziGGHnmb_0DW7oF

Just some latest media news of the subject.

LN, I have been reading those forcasts for the last 4 years

[typomaniac]

If everyone on this forum puts Red Parrot Spam on ignore, we'll all have lower blood pressure and cut our health care costs.

[red states rule]

If everyone on this forum puts Red Parrot Spam on ignore, we'll all have lower blood pressure and cut our health care costs.

That would work for you. That way you will not have to counter any facts and go on with your meaningless rants