Election thoughts

[Yurt]

Thats it, my loving, peaceful, canadian (oh, now american) wife finds dodo http://www.outfordemocracy.org/images/leads/people/edwardsrainbow.gif annoying. He is finished. She has spoken, eh.....

Huckabee, seems more solidified now since his wee win in Iowa. I was hoping that Romney would come out with more after Iowa, but maybe he has a different plan, like lay low, and hit them hard after NH? I was unsure about Huckabee before yesterday, however, he has taken his ""win"" in Iowa as a message to solidify his platform. So far, I like his platform, mostly.

[Kathianne]

All Presidential elections are important, I think this one moreso. Hillary was talking change today. They all are talking change. Change we will get, GW will be gone about a year from now. What will Congress look like? Who will be President? What change will we get?

All are unknown. Obama didn't necessarily win the youth, women, and white vote. They voted against Hillary, at least 70% of them. Iowans just never trusted Romney, neither do I. I would like to like him, it's not his religion, it's an EEEEEwwwwwwwww factor. Too slick. Now I cannot abide Huckabee, I don't think I'll have to. I don't think he can win, if the Republicans were to nominate him.

I guess I'm going to have to go with Fred, the rest turn me off. If he drops out at some point, well I can vote for Romney, Rudy, or McCain. I couldn't have said that about all 3 a month ago, but Paul, Bloomberg would not be acceptable, I think Obama is more liberal than Hillary, I cannot vote for Hillary.

[pegwinn]

I listened to Huckabee on the radio today. He sounded good. Of course all pols sound good. I wish RP was able to merge his constitutional philosophy with reality. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if he could. I thought bloomberg was a stock market thing.

[82Marine89]

I listened to Huckabee on the radio today. He sounded good. Of course all pols sound good. I wish RP was able to merge his constitutional philosophy with reality. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if he could. I thought bloomberg was a stock market thing.

I was driving behind a car today that had a Kucinich sticker on one side and a Paul sticker on the other. I have been a Paul fan for years. I have read numerous articles of his and have always agreed with his Constitutional philosophy. He hasn't lost me or my respect and is a likely second choice for me. It makes me wonder what others see in him that someone from the extreme left can agree with Libertarians and Conservatives. Maybe it's like Phil states, the conservatives and Libertarians like his Constitutional values and the liberals like his being out of touch with reality.

[pegwinn]

That's the problem. He's absolutely right on the money when discussing the constitution in an academic manner.

We should not have foreign entanglements -- But without them most if not all of Europe would be speaking German or Russian. In GW's day (that would be the very very first GW BTW) the USA was remote enough that we could tell the world to fuck off and die. Won't work now.

We should have smaller government -- I love this one. But the reality is that the president is only one man. It would take a President and a unified congress of actual statesmen backing him to do it. But, illogical as it may be, I am holding out hope on this one eventually happening.

The biggest reality that kicks RP's ass domestically is the people themselves. Most have no clue just how many personal liberties they have lost from 1789 to today. The really sad part is that most don't care.

I think Ron Pauls best contribution would actually be as a conservative presidents chief advisor. Picture a constitutionally oriented rove......

This is one of those times I would love to be proven wrong.

[gabosaurus]

I am waiting for the contenders to separate from the pretenders before I get all worked up about 2008.
Dems -- Hillary will eventually self-destruct. Edwards will discover that much of his base prefers Obama.
GOP -- Much political blood will be shed on the campaign trail. I have zero idea who will emerge from the muck.

[pegwinn]

I am waiting for the contenders to separate from the pretenders before I get all worked up about 2008.
Dems -- Hillary will eventually self-destruct. Edwards will discover that much of his base prefers Obama.
GOP -- Much political blood will be shed on the campaign trail. I have zero idea who will emerge from the muck.

Women, Always coming up with a reason not to get worked up :laugh2:

You would think that primaries would be a bit more polite since it's all in the same house. I mean, they all signed the loyalty oath to the party..... so it aint like anyone is going to be really out of touch......

[gabosaurus]

You would think that primaries would be a bit more polite since it's all in the same house. I mean, they all signed the loyalty oath to the party..... so it aint like anyone is going to be really out of touch......

I once thought that. Then I read about nasty primary fight between Reagan and Bush I. Hard to believe that they reconciled after that.

[DrJohn]

I once thought that. Then I read about nasty primary fight between Reagan and Bush I. Hard to believe that they reconciled after that.


It's not really that hard to believe. Bush wanted to be the VP and the eventual POTUS more than he wanted to stick to his principles.

ALL politicians are like this.

[Kathianne]

Having read the few posts that followed one of my own, I want to add something. I've been thinking for awhile now, the primaries tear the candidates down. The ones we focus on first with the primaries are likely, who we will be voting for the next November. Perhaps because this cycle has been too long; shoot it feels like this should be September or October. I don't think it's working well. It seems to me that the GOP has many more problems with this than the DNC, but could be my focus.

It's been a long time since any felt they were voting FOR someone, instead of against someone else. (I think the 'youth' voters this time do have Obama to get excited about and I hear it. I don't forget how I was at their age, I'm sure I'd want to be on the 'right' side of electing a black person. If Hillary wasn't Hillary, she'd have that going to, but she is, so she doesn't. :laugh2:

Someone mentioned that perhaps we should have a national 'primary' day and that's that. If no clear winner, the Conventions would decide. That's sounding better and better to me. I think there has to be a 'clear' winner to go into the convention 'sure' of the nomination, say an 8-10 point lead. The parties have always had the choice to broker a candidate, though it would be suicide with the primary system we now have.

I know all the 'bad' things that happened with the politicos picking the nominees, all the deals, threats, promises that came from the 'cigar filled back rooms'. Bosses made and feared. But what do we have now? Millions and millions, if not billions spent over the course of years. Potential leaders torn down via opposition and media looking for dirt. Usually we end up voting against the candidate, not for them. Politics of personal destruction increasing year after year. Leaders that can't lead, they are perpetually forced to raise money for the next election.

We wonder at the hostility between the parties, no doubt much of it comes from our current system. Constant threats of 'impeachment', though usually it's just a 'flame', yet some hanger ons hear it and drumbeat it. Doesn't matter it we are talking Clinton or Bush, though it started with Reagan and has only escalated. No one can govern under these circumstances and the times are as dangerous as ever.

Bottom line, even the bosses had reasons to come up with decent candidates, they KNEW the dirt on each other. The candidates were vetted before they were put forward. Were there backroom deals for appointments, etc? Would there be today, probably. Difference today, people do have more ways of checking up on those they question or care about, sort of like the 'new media' and the MSM. How few care enough? Not many.

Just a thought.

[pegwinn]

I like the primary system. I mentioned somewhere else that it actually balances the smaller states complaints about the electoral college somewhat.

I think the bosses and smoke filled rooms still exist for the house, appointements, senate, and appointments. These bosses hide at the state levels unless they broker well enough at the national level. Just a theory on my part since they are better at hiding than before.

I dunno about a national primary day. For me, one thing it demonstrates is endurance or staying power. All silly grinning aside :coffee: if you cannot keep going thru the pain, sleep deprivation, and stress...... you will have no business leading the free world. Consider it Evolution in Action.

[Pale Rider]

Just watching the Republican debate... and I do NOT like the way the candidates disrespect Ron Paul. So far he's the only one that's got applause, and I agree with much of what he say's. I'd laugh my ass off if he won N.H.. Maybe that would take a little wind out these arrogant sons a bitches sails and teach them a little humility.

[manu1959]

Just watching the Republican debate... and I do NOT like the way the candidates disrespect Ron Paul. So far he's the only one that's got applause, and I agree with much of what he say's. I'd laugh my ass off if he won N.H.. Maybe that would take a little wind out these arrogant sons a bitches sails and teach them a little humility.

ron paul says some nutty stuff but i am pretty sure he is smarter than all of em combined.....

that said.....

mitt (WTF kind of name is mitt) is lookin a lot like the the pres to me.....

hillary went bonkers again......it was pretty funny

[Psychoblues]

Sorry to relate this to you, kitty, but Obama did win the youth, white and women vote in Iowa. Whether he can continue that propensity nationwide is to be seen.



All Presidential elections are important, I think this one moreso. Hillary was talking change today. They all are talking change. Change we will get, GW will be gone about a year from now. What will Congress look like? Who will be President? What change will we get?

All are unknown. Obama didn't necessarily win the youth, women, and white vote. They voted against Hillary, at least 70% of them. Iowans just never trusted Romney, neither do I. I would like to like him, it's not his religion, it's an EEEEEwwwwwwwww factor. Too slick. Now I cannot abide Huckabee, I don't think I'll have to. I don't think he can win, if the Republicans were to nominate him.

I guess I'm going to have to go with Fred, the rest turn me off. If he drops out at some point, well I can vote for Romney, Rudy, or McCain. I couldn't have said that about all 3 a month ago, but Paul, Bloomberg would not be acceptable, I think Obama is more liberal than Hillary, I cannot vote for Hillary.

Whatever, Barack Obama made history in the United States of America and I am extremenly proud for that fact. Numerically speaking, John Edwards also did well in that red state as well as Hillary even exceeded the indicated caucuses of republican candidates.

Republicans voted in 2000 for a compassionate conservative. They got an idiot and certainly not anything genuine. I think conservatives in Iowa see the real thing in Huckabee. He doesn't have a prayers chance in hell for the general but at least I see movement in the Republican Party for reconciliation.

[manu1959]

you act like a black or a christian has never won a caucus before....


Sorry to relate this to you, kitty, but Obama did win the youth, white and women vote in Iowa. Whether he can continue that propensity nationwide is to be seen.

Whatever, Barack Obama made history in the United States of America and I am extremenly proud for that fact. Numerically speaking, John Edwards also did well in that red state as well as Hillary even exceeded the indicated caucuses of republican candidates.

Republicans voted in 2000 for a compassionate conservative. They got an idiot and certainly not anything genuine. I think conservatives in Iowa see the real thing in Huckabee. He doesn't have a prayers chance in hell for the general but at least I see movement in the Republican Party for reconciliation.

[Psychoblues]

m'59, are you accusing me of acting?



you act like a black or a christian has never won a caucus before....

Your dishonest statement is duly noted. Enjoy your evening.

[manu1959]

m'59, are you accusing me of acting?
Your dishonest statement is duly noted. Enjoy your evening.

you understand the stament don't be a twit......obama has won one caucus.....how many did jesse win?

[Psychoblues]

Don't call me a twit, you twit!!!!!!!!

[Kathianne]

Sorry to relate this to you, kitty, but Obama did win the youth, white and women vote in Iowa. Whether he can continue that propensity nationwide is to be seen.




..

What I said. Drink away PB.

[manu1959]

Don't call me a twit, you twit!!!!!!!!

it would seem that you are unaware that obama has not yet really acomplished anything.....

[Psychoblues]

Uhhhh, he won the Democratic election in Iowa, he has won several state elections in Illinois as well as a statewide election for United States Senator.



it would seem that you are unaware that obama has not yet really acomplished anything.....

Care to post your pitiful resume', m'59?

[pegwinn]

I don't hate Obama or Clinton but I oppose their positions strongly enough that if Mitt is the nominatinon (God forbid) I will hold my nose and vote against them.

I wonder if we could get Ron to be a VP? Then he could directly advise the populist on constitutionality of this and that.

[82Marine89]

Uhhhh, he won the Democratic election in Iowa, he has won several state elections in Illinois as well as a statewide election for United States Senator.


Give me a break. He ran against Alan Keyes. That election was a gimme.

[Psychoblues]

Admittedly, Alan Keyes was and remains an embarrassment for the otherwise respectable Republicans, but I don't think he was a factor at all in Iowa.



Give me a break. He ran against Alan Keyes. That election was a gimme.

What's your take on that?

[manu1959]

Uhhhh, he won the Democratic election in Iowa, he has won several state elections in Illinois as well as a statewide election for United States Senator.
Care to post your pitiful resume', m'59?

my reference was to jesse.....

[82Marine89]

Admittedly, Alan Keyes was and remains an embarrassment for the otherwise respectable Republicans, but I don't think he was a factor at all in Iowa.

What's your take on that?

I think in Iowa more people voted against Hillary than for her and the ones that voted for Edwards would never vote for a black or a man with a Muslim name.

[Psychoblues]

M'89, I never expected you and others like m'59 to understand. That's what makes this forum so special. You expose your ignorance and I am free to expose my own. Are you certain the "black man" can't be elected?

[82Marine89]

M'89, I never expected you and others like m'59 to understand. That's what makes this forum so special. You expose your ignorance and I am free to expose my own. Are you certain the "black man" can't be elected?

Nope and I never said that. I just said that there are folks that will never vote for a woman, a black, or a person with a Muslim name. Do you disagree.

[Psychoblues]

Thanks for the good rep, martin, but really, just what is your question?

[Psychoblues]

Yes.


Nope and I never said that. I just said that there are folks that will never vote for a woman, a black, or a person with a Muslim name. Do you disagree.

Tell me about your confusion. Maybe I can help.

[actsnoblemartin]

is america ready for a black president?

I believe so, what is your opinion?


Thanks for the good rep, martin, but really, just what is your question?

[Psychoblues]

We're being honest here, aren't we, martin?



is america ready for a black president?

I believe so, what is your opinion?

No, I don't believe America is ready for a "black" President. My hopes mirror the hopes of Obama but I've been disappointed before.

[actsnoblemartin]

tell me why you dont think america is ready for a black president.

in 2000, a jew ran for vice president, and they got more votes, so why isnt ready for a black president


We're being honest here, aren't we, martin?




No, I don't believe America is ready for a "black" President. My hopes mirror the hopes of Obama but I've been disappointed before.

[Psychoblues]

martin, I know that you ask the question honestly and I will give you an honest observation.



tell me why you dont think america is ready for a black president.

in 2000, a jew ran for vice president, and they got more votes, so why isnt ready for a black president

I talked to a black man today that once worked for me. I would give my job and probably my life for him and I sincerely believe he would do the same for me. Whatever. He told me that he believed the US would not elect or accept a black person or a woman for President at this time. I was shocked. Why would he think that? As you might surmise, I got into his head for a little bit but tell me what you think about it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

As far as a "Jew" is concerned, I have never heard anything negative about Jews south of the Mason-Dixon line. Maybe outside the south the Jews are the major concern and within the south the blacks are the concern. Can we get over all that?

[actsnoblemartin]

Thank you for your courtesy, I wish more members of this board would give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now back to business.

Perhaps I am more of an optimist. But I would like to think america is ready for a black president. Sadly there will always be those, who judge a man by his skin instead of his character.

But i hope if now or in the future... america thinks a candidate who happens to be black is the best candidate.. they will vote for him for that reason not for or against a candidate because of his or her race.


martin, I know that you ask the question honestly and I will give you an honest observation.




I talked to a black man today that once worked for me. I would give my job and probably my life for him and I sincerely believe he would do the same for me. Whatever. He told me that he believed the US would not elect or accept a black person or a woman for President at this time. I was shocked. Why would he think that? As you might surmise, I got into his head for a little bit but tell me what you think about it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

As far as a "Jew" is concerned, I have never heard anything negative about Jews south of the Mason-Dixon line. Maybe outside the south the Jews are the major concern and within the south the blacks are the concern. Can we get over all that?

[nevadamedic]

Thats it, my loving, peaceful, canadian (oh, now american) wife finds dodo http://www.outfordemocracy.org/images/leads/people/edwardsrainbow.gif annoying. He is finished. She has spoken, eh.....

Huckabee, seems more solidified now since his wee win in Iowa. I was hoping that Romney would come out with more after Iowa, but maybe he has a different plan, like lay low, and hit them hard after NH? I was unsure about Huckabee before yesterday, however, he has taken his ""win"" in Iowa as a message to solidify his platform. So far, I like his platform, mostly.

You mean like pardoning or commuting over 1,200 high risk offenders before he left office including one who raped and killed again? Yup he's a real winner.

[Psychoblues]

Huckleberry Hound and John Edwards are just eating your ass up, aren't they?

Get used to it. It's called America.

[actsnoblemartin]

I have been hearing bad things about huckabee, edwards I dont like because he acts like government can fix all your problems for you

A safety net yes, but breathing doesnt entitle to you too one, its only for those who truly need it.

Some things, im sure i agree with him on

ceo's dont need 400 million dollars, i agree with there

and offshorting, fuck that!


Huckleberry Hound and John Edwards are just eating your ass up, aren't they?

Get used to it. It's called America.