Kansas GOP head braggs about vote caging sucess

[truthmatters]

http://bluetiderising.blogspot.com/2007/12/kobach-admits-to-coordinated-voter.html


This is the plan folks , Its illegal and they are so corrupt they forget its illegal and brag about it.

Where is the so called liberal media?

[Trigg]

link doesn't work :link:

[Mr. P]

The requested URL was not found on this server.

Seems yer oh so credible BLOG source is a zip.

[jimnyc]

http://bluetiderising.blogspot.com/2...ted-voter.html


This is the plan folks , Its illegal and they are so corrupt they forget its illegal and brag about it.

Where is the so called liberal media?


link doesn't work :link:

Of course the link doesn't work! TM is easily the stupidest person on this board and can't think for one second by herself. This happens when she copies links from other boards. The boards truncate the length of the link, but they work when members click on the link. Dumbass continually copies the truncated links to other boards. I've seen her do this on at least 2 other boards too. Like I said, she's an idiot.

[truthmatters]

OK I fixed the link.

Go and defend your party for thier illegal actions.


http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/kobach.htm

Sad thing is this guy is also a law professor

[Dilloduck]

http://bluetiderising.blogspot.com/2007/12/kobach-admits-to-coordinated-voter.html


This is the plan folks , Its illegal and they are so corrupt they forget its illegal and brag about it.

Where is the so called liberal media?

Crime is supposed to be handled by those involved with law enforcement, not the media but thanks so much for enlightening us all !

[Trigg]

Crime is supposed to be handled by those involved with law enforcement, not the media but thanks so much for enlightening us all !

Take it from me, arguing with her does not good. It will only give you a headache.

[Dilloduck]

Take it from me, arguing with her does not good. It will only give you a headache.

The poor girl comes in for her daily beating like clockwork. I think she needs to know what a GREAT person she is so she can stop seeking abuse and persecution. Whadda ya say ? Spread the love ??

[Trigg]

The poor girl comes in for her daily beating like clockwork. I think she needs to know what a GREAT person she is so she can stop seeking abuse and persecution. Whadda ya say ? Spread the love ??

Well, not today. I gotta be in the right frame of mind, and today I'm just to tired.

[truthmatters]

This guy was also a part of this current admins DOJ who did not prosicute anything their R party buddies did yet prosicuted people like the governor of alabama for false charges.

So Its just fine with you guys that he did this , bragged about it and is now going to get off scott free because of who controls the courts?

The morals of the republican party members are underwhelming.

[Dilloduck]

This guy was also a part of this current admins DOJ who did not prosicute anything their R party buddies did yet prosicuted people like the governor of alabama for false charges.

So Its just fine with you guys that he did this , bragged about it and is now going to get off scott free because of who controls the courts?

The morals of the republican party members are underwhelming.

its a HORRIBLE thing ----You have a heart of gold to fight against evil like you do !!

[Mr. P]

It's awfully covenant to leave out the first sentence in this two sentence point of accomplishments made ain't it?
In context it takes on a whole new meaning. Funny how the left wing haters ALWAYS leave something out.

[truthmatters]

So you guys think it is just fine that the republican party is bragging about illegal activity?

You have no problem with a prominent republican working to make sure Americans lose their right to vote?

These are facts folks.

The email exsists and he sent it out to his fellow republicans and they have not said a peep about the illegality of your partys actions.

You instead have yourselves a little party insulting someone who brought you the truth?

This is why your party is dying.

You have lost your moral compass.

[Mr. P]

So you guys think it is just fine that the republican party is bragging about illegal activity?

You have no problem with a prominent republican working to make sure Americans lose their right to vote?

These are facts folks.

The email exsists and he sent it out to his fellow republicans and they have not said a peep about the illegality of your partys actions.

You instead have yourselves a little party insulting someone who brought you the truth?

This is why your party is dying.

You have lost your moral compass.

:laugh2: Are you REALLY this FUCKING STUPID?

[avatar4321]

why are you so upset when people who don't live in the districts are removed from voting registration there?

Why it so important to allow people casting illegal votes on the registers?

[truthmatters]

Vote caging is illegal.

He calls it just that.


He braggs about increasing the vote caging of the party to double the last two years.

He braggs about preforming illegal activity and you people call me names as if it will make it go away?


Do you really think anyone reading these responses falls for your transparent lack of any moral compass?

You people have completely lost any loyalty to what your country stands for.
You have chosen party over the rule of law and the constitution.

Your party is dying a not so slow death for very good reason.

[Mr. P]

Vote caging is illegal.

He calls it just that.


He braggs about increasing the vote caging of the party to double the last two years.

He braggs about preforming illegal activity and you people call me names as if it will make it go away?


Do you really think anyone reading these responses falls for your transparent lack of any moral compass?

You people have completely lost any loyalty to what your country stands for.
You have chosen party over the rule of law and the constitution.

Your party is dying a not so slow death for very good reason.

File a suit DUMB ASS!. But first ask yer self why no one else has. :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

So you dont care if the people representing your party cheat as long as they get away with it?

Do you ever look in the mirror?

Do the laws of our country mean nothing to you?

[82Marine89]

So you dont care if the people representing your party cheat as long as they get away with it?

Do you ever look in the mirror?

Do the laws of our country mean nothing to you?

If you don't, why should we?

[Trigg]

I wonder what every happened to the voter purge in Louisiana. Liesmatter you have to remember that one, it went on for a number of pages. I can't seem to find anything on it.

Maybe because it was found that the republicans weren't really doing anything illegal??????????

Nope, I'm sure that's not it. We have the media in our backpocket (CBS & MSNBC) so maybe that's why. Damn we're smart. :dance:


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=6627&highlight=louisiana+voter+purge

[PostmodernProphet]

Vote caging is illegal.

the problem, Truth, is that what they have done isn't illegal.....the person who wrote the article you quoted would like you to think it is, but, she is wrong.....sorry about that.....you really ought to hang out with a more honest bunch of blog writers, this happens to you a lot......

[Immanuel]

http://bluetiderising.blogspot.com/2007/12/kobach-admits-to-coordinated-voter.html


This is the plan folks , Its illegal and they are so corrupt they forget its illegal and brag about it.

Where is the so called liberal media?

Hmm, it seems that there are two different definitions of the word "cage" in this context and it seems that the Dems automatically accuse the Reps of doing something illegal. I wonder if this is because the Dems have done the illegal work themselves? No, they would never... would they?

Here is what the Kansas GOP says about the issue.

http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=7547668



Thursday, December 27, 2007

Democrats are accusing the state Republican Party of taking steps to help suppress voter turnout in next year’s elections.

A GOP official said the work cited by Democrats is actually designed to help get voters to the polls.

In a year-end e-mail message from state GOP Chairman Kris Kobach to Republican activists, Kobach said the Kansas GOP had “caged” more voters in 2007 than during 2005 and 2006.

Mike Gaughan, Kansas Democratic Party executive director, said one form of “caging” is building a list of voters to challenge later.

But Christian Morgan, GOP executive director, said Kobach is referring to an effort to “cage” information on voters’ views so the Republican Party knows which ones to get to the polls.

I wonder who is telling the truth. Maybe it is the Dems. Maybe it is the Reps, but I highly doubt the Rep would "brag" about breaking the law while I wouldn't put it past Dems to spin, spin, spin in order to get the uninformed to believe that the Reps are doing something wrong.

I don't know who is telling the truth, but once again, I highly doubt that if it was illegal, that Kobach would be bragging about it.


Do you really think anyone reading these responses falls for your transparent lack of any moral compass?

Well, you fall for every bit of liberal drivel that comes across the internet so anything is possible. Maybe if you tried reading the responses to the spin you throw out there on a daily basis, you will see that there are two sides to every coin?

Immie

[Psychoblues]

Caging is the subject, a'21.



why are you so upset when people who don't live in the districts are removed from voting registration there?

Why it so important to allow people casting illegal votes on the registers?

tm is dead correct on this issue. But, you would rather condemn her rather than address the subject as all others have done in this thread so far?

Have you ever read any of the work by Greg Palast about "caging votes?"

[PostmodernProphet]

tm is dead correct on this issue.

actually, you are as wrong as TM was.....caging was arguably wrong under the voter's rights act if used to target votes on a racial basis (alleged by the Democrats in Florida, but never proved), but "caging" in itself is not illegal....caging simply refers to identifying potential illegal registrations.......

[truthmatters]

I wonder what every happened to the voter purge in Louisiana. Liesmatter you have to remember that one, it went on for a number of pages. I can't seem to find anything on it.

Maybe because it was found that the republicans weren't really doing anything illegal??????????

Nope, I'm sure that's not it. We have the media in our backpocket (CBS & MSNBC) so maybe that's why. Damn we're smart.


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=6627&highlight=louisiana+voter+purge

So you seem to think court cases such as this are solved in a couple of months huh? They are dstill being sued.

Your party was convicted of just such actions in 1981 and Monica Goodling of the DOJ testified under oath that they were involved in illegal vote caging up until her departure from the DOJ.

You dont have anyone in your pocket, Its you and your inability to face fact that keep the R party dirty as hell. If you had any real love for your party or your country you would insist on them following the law. You seem to not care how they win elelctions as long as they win them. You dont believe in democracy it seems.

[Trigg]

So you seem to think court cases such as this are solved in a couple of months huh? They are dstill being sued.

Your party was convicted of just such actions in 1981 and Monica Goodling of the DOJ testified under oath that they were involved in illegal vote caging up until her departure from the DOJ.

You dont have anyone in your pocket, Its you and your inability to face fact that keep the R party dirty as hell. If you had any real love for your party or your country you would insist on them following the law. You seem to not care how they win elelctions as long as they win them. You dont believe in democracy it seems.


Yep, ya got me. Us little old republicans just don't care how dirty our side is.

[truthmatters]

And they will be dirty as hell until people who vote republican face the facts of the dirty dealings in the party.

Calling illegal actions nothing of concern is what every republican who answered this thread has said.

[Mr. P]

And they will be dirty as hell until people who vote republican face the facts of the dirty dealings in the party.

Calling illegal actions nothing of concern is what every republican who answered this thread has said.

BULLSHIT!

[truthmatters]

You did not seem very concerned about this vote caging.

Do you even know what the phrase means?

[jimnyc]

You did not seem very concerned about this vote caging.

Do you even know what the phrase means?

And apparently neither do you! I believe Postmodernprophet has already set you straight but maybe his words were too big for an idiot like you.

[manu1959]

You did not seem very concerned about this vote caging.

Do you even know what the phrase means?

read post 22.....

[Immanuel]

And apparently neither do you! I believe Postmodernprophet has already set you straight but maybe his words were too big for an idiot like you.

She doesn't care what PmP says. It didn't jive with what the liberal talking points claimed to be absolute truth so she shines it on. The only people that she believes are liberal liars on blogs who don't necessarily know their asses from holes in the ground.

Some blog says something and it bashes conservatives or Republicans; therefore, what they are saying must be the truth. It could say that President Bush stole the Hope Diamond and was wearing it at the precise moment that the first plane hit the WTC and that he is still wearing it today and she would post it as the god's awful truth and never sway from her belief even when it is proven that the diamond still sitting in the Smithsonian.

Immie

PS... Um, it is still there right? ;)

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging

You can pretend it means something else but it doesnt

[jimnyc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging

You can pretend it means something else but it doesnt

Your own link gives the legal definition just prior to your rants about voter suppression, dumbass!!

[PostmodernProphet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging

You can pretend it means something else but it doesnt

/shrugs....you can pretend it's illegal, but it isn't......

[truthmatters]

a caging list is not illegal.

Caging votes is illegal.

His email talked about caging votes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging#Voter_suppression




Voter suppression
According to an article by Dahlia Lithwick in Slate.com, caging has been used by members of the Republican Party as a form of voter suppression.[3] The use of direct mail caging techniques to target voters resulted in the application of the name to the political tactic. With one type of caging, a political party sends registered mail to addresses of registered voters. If the mail is returned as undeliverable - because, for example, the voter refuses to sign for it, the voter isn't present for delivery, or the voter is homeless - the party uses that fact to challenge the registration, arguing that because the voter could not be reached at the address, the registration is fraudulent.[4] A political party challenges the validity of a voter's registration; for the voter's ballot to be counted, the voter must prove that their registration is valid.

Voters targeted by caging are often the most vulnerable: soldiers deployed overseas, those who are unfamiliar with their rights under the law, and those who cannot spare the time, effort, and expense of proving that their registration is valid.[5] On the day of the election, when the voter arrives at the poll and requests a ballot, an operative of the party challenges the validity of their registration. Ultimately, caging works by dissuading a voter from casting a ballot, or by ensuring that they cast a provisional ballot, which is less likely to be counted. [6][citation needed]

While the challenge process is prescribed by law, the use of broad, partisan challenges is controversial. For example, in the United States Presidential Election of 2004, the Republican Party employed this process to challenge the validity of tens of thousands of voter registrations in contested states like Florida, Nevada, Ohio, and Wisconsin. The Republican Party argued that the challenges were necessary to combat widespread voter fraud. The Democratic Party countered that the challenges were tantamount to voter suppression, and further argued that the Republican Party had targeted voter registrations on the basis of the race of the voter, in violation of the federal Voting Rights Act law.[7]

Monica Goodling cited the existence and concern about "vote caging" in her written and oral testimony to the United States House Judiciary Committee on May 23, 2007, mentioning that Tim Griffin, who was appointed as interim United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas, would have allegations of vote caging arise if ever presented to be confirmed by the Senate to the office, and that the Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty "failed to disclose that he had some knowledge of allegations that Tim Griffin had been involved in vote-caging during his work on the president's 2004 campaign."[8][9][10]


[edit] Examples of proven or alleged political caging
From the Washington Post: "In 1981, the Republican National Committee sent letters to predominantly black neighborhoods in New Jersey, and when 45,000 letters were returned as undeliverable, the committee compiled a challenge list to remove those voters from the rolls. The RNC sent off-duty law enforcement officials to the polls and hung posters in heavily black neighborhoods warning that violating election laws is a crime." Republicans however, denied that black voters were the target. An attorney for the RNC, Bobby Burchfield, stated that "troubling reports" of fictitious names such as Mary Poppins were appearing on Ohio's rolls and that is what prompted the challenges.

The Washington Post[11]:"In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'" The Republican National Committee reportedly stopped the practice following the consent decree in the 1986 case, but allegations of RNC-conducted voter caging arose once again in the 2004 elections.

In October 2004, the BBC Newsnight program reported on an alleged George W. Bush campaign caging list, the existence of which suggested that the campaign might have been planning illegal disruption of African American voting in Jacksonville, Florida. The BBC obtained a document from George W. Bush's Florida campaign headquarters that was inadvertently e-mailed to the parody website GeorgeWBush.org. The program reported that the e-mail attachment contained a list of 1,886 voter names and addresses in largely African-American and Democratic areas of Jacksonville. Democratic Party officials and a number of journalists allege that the document is a caging list that the Bush campaign was going to use to issue mass challenges to African-American voters, in violation of the court ordered 1982 and 1987 consent decrees. Although Florida statutory law allows the parties to challenge voters at the polls, this practice is not allowed if the challenges appear to be race-based. Court documents produced during limited discovery in a challenge to use of cagings list in Ohio, revealed clear intent to use caging lists to challenge voters. Specifically, in the US District Court, District of New Jersey, Civil Action No. 81-3876, exhibit D, filed 10/29/04 and entitled "Declaration_of_Caroline_Hunter_and_emails_exh_d", emails exchanged between RNC operatives (Blaise Hazlewood, Caroline Hunter, Terry Nelson, and Tim Griffin), Bush-Cheney '04 campaign workers (Christopher Guith, Coddy Johnson, Robert Paduchik, and Dave DenHerder) and the Ohio Republican Party personnel (Mike Magan) revealed involvement of these entities in caging operations and intent to utilize the caging lists to challenge ballots in Ohio and other states[12]. Furthermore, these email exchanges also revealed concern about GOP fingerprints with ballot challenges based on caging lists in states that did not have flagged voter rolls[13]. The concern about GOP involvement in the email sent by Tim Griffin to Christopher Guith and others may have reflected knowledge of the fact that the RNC is prohibited by Consent Decrees from involvement in ballot security measures such as caging, when the measures have racial bias. Regardless of the intent of caging list design, there are no documented voter challenges based on caging lists in the 2004 elections.

The list came to light because of numerous e-mails accidentally addressed by, among others, Republican campaigners to the georgewbush.org anti-Bush site instead of the georgewbush.com Bush campaign site. Two of these e-mails had the subject line "Re: Caging" and contained Microsoft Excel spreadsheet file attachments called "Caging.xls" and "Caging-1.xls".[14][15].

Investigative reporter Greg Palast initially received the emails from the owner of georgewbush.org, and in a recent interview has drawn a link to the scandal surrounding the Alberto Gonzales U.S. Attorney firings, claiming that the firings are part of a wider effort by Republicans to use caging to "steal the 2008 election."[16]

[Dilloduck]

I'm sorta at a loss here--you want me to call the cops?

[PostmodernProphet]

a caging list is not illegal.

Caging votes is illegal.

His email talked about caging votes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_ca...er_suppression




Voter suppression

no, voter suppression is illegal......caging votes to suppress voting is illegal.....but you can cage votes for many reasons, and suppressing voting is only one of them....the only illegal one......saying that you are admitting illegality by admitting caging votes is like saying you are admitting prostitution by admitting you had sex.......

the best reason for caging votes is to identify people who are fraudulently registered, a Democratic method of winning elections that dates back at least as far as Daley's Chicago and happened as recently as ACORN........

[truthmatters]

"In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'"

It was part of a court decision in which they were caught suppressing votes and promised not to do these types of lists.

They are breaking a court agreement, they are breaking the law.

You can pretend its not true but it is.







http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/239832.html



Former Justice Department civil rights officials and election watchdog groups charge that his letter sided with Republicans engaging in an illegal, racially motivated tactic known as "vote-caging" in a state that would be pivotal in delivering President Bush a second term in the White House.

[jimnyc]

TM - if what you say is true, why isn't anyone being charged with a crime? Why aren't the most prominent of Democrats up in arms about it? They would absolutely LOVE to have proof of a crime in writing by a Republican, but why aren't there any charges? Why aren't the Democrats running with this in congress and shouting from the rooftops crying foul about this law that was broken?

[Kathianne]

TM - if what you say is true, why isn't anyone being charged with a crime? Why aren't the most prominent of Democrats up in arms about it? They would absolutely LOVE to have proof of a crime in writing by a Republican, but why aren't there any charges? Why aren't the Democrats running with this in congress and shouting from the rooftops crying foul about this law that was broken?

There you go, trying to make sense. :coffee:

[truthmatters]

TM - if what you say is true, why isn't anyone being charged with a crime? Why aren't the most prominent of Democrats up in arms about it? They would absolutely LOVE to have proof of a crime in writing by a Republican, but why aren't there any charges? Why aren't the Democrats running with this in congress and shouting from the rooftops crying foul about this law that was broken?

Why do you think Bush packed the DOJ with the shittiest lawyers he could find from a right wing christian law school.

They have refused to bring charges against any republican and have trumped up democratic cases.

The NAACP did file charges in Louisianna and you scoffed at them too.

You dont care about the law or the sanctity of the voting process you only care about party.

Still in this thread there was not one word from Rs here stating if they broke the law they should be punished. All your side has said so far is "it cant be true" or "so what".

[jimnyc]

Why do you think Bush packed the DOJ with the shittiest lawyers he could find from a right wing christian law school.

They have refused to bring charges against any republican and have trumped up democratic cases.

The NAACP did file charges in Louisianna and you scoffed at them too.

You dont care about the law or the sanctity of the voting process you only care about party.

Still in this thread there was not one word from Rs here stating if they broke the law they should be punished. All your side has said so far is "it cant be true" or "so what".

If they broke the law, I don't care if they are Republicans or not, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

But don't give me that crap about the DOJ... Why aren't the Democrats PUSHING for charges? I mean, according to you, the proof is in writing, how can you get better evidence than that? Again, why aren't the Democrat leaders going berserk over this and at least making sure the country is aware that they broke the law? Are you saying the Democrats don't care that the law was broken?

[MtnBiker]

Are you saying the Democrats don't care that the law was broken?

Or at least the ACLU, they love to take people to court, that is what they exsist for. Where is the ACLU in this case?

[truthmatters]

Its been two days guys, buy a clue

[jimnyc]

Its been two days guys, buy a clue

Read your own link again, it's been 9 days, so go buy a working brain!

And no self respecting Democrat is crying about it because unlike you they know no laws have been broken.

[truthmatters]

11 days since he wrote the email and a little over a week in the middle of christmas since the story began to break.

Do you think maybe someone needs research the offense to write up a complaint?

How long does it take?

Maybe you should look into a few cases and understand the timelines of these things?

[jimnyc]

11 days since he wrote the email and a little over a week in the middle of christmas since the story began to break.

Do you think maybe someone needs research the offense to write up a complaint?

How long does it take?

Maybe you should look into a few cases and understand the timelines of these things?

That's a hoot, you talking about "understanding" things! So a stupid fuck like you can have knowledge of this and rant like a twit a few short days later but the Democratic party hasn't gotten wind of it yet? I'll bet you any amount of money you want to place on the line that no charges are ever filed.

And to answer your question, if this was an illegal act in writing, there would have been condemnation from the Democrat leaders within hours of it coming to light. They brought the matter of Rush Limbaugh to the floor in less time than this has been out! But yet when an illegal voting crime has occurred they don't do anything?

Face it, you're wrong, and none of your mindless rants are going to change that fact. Keep writing your illiterate, inane posts and it's not going to change a damn thing, only solidify the fact that you are the board's biggest dolt!

[truthmatters]

Vote caging IS illegal.

That is a fact.

This wonderful republican who you love to defend bragged about an illegal action.

This is the facts on the table.

No amount of name calling changes the facts.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'"

It was part of a court decision in which they were caught suppressing votes and promised not to do these types of lists.

They are breaking a court agreement, they are breaking the law.

You can pretend its not true but it is.

[jimnyc]

Vote caging IS illegal.

That is a fact.

This wonderful republican who you love to defend bragged about an illegal action.

This is the facts on the table.

No amount of name calling changes the facts.

Vote caging by definition is 100% legal you twit! Hell, even your own link provided proves that! You're now claiming as a fact that it is illegal shows just how truly stupid you are. Only if done to purposefully suppress votes is it illegal, something you haven't even come close to showing, and why no Democrat is involved in your little conspiracy theory.

And I've defended nobody. Show me where I defended a single person in this thread! You like to throw shit out there like that in the hopes it'll cover up your own asinine statements, but it won't.

The only facts ARE the name calling, because the things you have been called are factual.

[truthmatters]

In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'"

It was part of a court decision in which they were caught suppressing votes and promised not to do these types of lists.

They are breaking a court agreement, they are breaking the law.

You can pretend its not true but it is.

It is illegal for the R party to partake in this activity. They have been convicted before and part of the punishment was them signing a deal to not preform this act again.

Its in the court doc buddy and that is fact.

Again they were caught and punished in 1986 for just such activity and signed a deal NOT TO VOTE CAGE. It is illegal for them to do so or they break their sentance agreement.







http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/239832.html



Former Justice Department civil rights officials and election watchdog groups charge that his letter sided with Republicans engaging in an illegal, racially motivated tactic known as "vote-caging" in a state that would be pivotal in delivering President Bush a second term in the White House.

[jimnyc]

Damn, you are a persistent idiot! Vote caging is only illegal when it's done so by targeting race. Legitimate vote caging is 100% legal and no matter how much ranting you do that won't change. They are not engaging in voter suppression but rather plain 'ol vote caging which is 100% legal and exactly why nobody in the Democratic party is saying shit about this, but only loony toons like yourself. Hell, you're own bolded letters state they can't do what they're doing IF they are targeting minorities. Now please show us proof that this is what they were doing... I'll be waiting...

[truthmatters]

http://projectvote.org/newsroom/project-vote-news/press-release.html?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=1392&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=180&cHash=555bc6e0a5


NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release:

Voting Rights Groups Caution Four Midwestern States Over Program to Identify and Cancel Duplicate Voter Registrations
December 18, 2007

WASHINGTON, DC - A four-state effort to identify and remove duplicate names from state voter registration lists may run afoul of a federal voting law by illegally purging voters, advocates warned in letters to four Midwestern secretaries of state. The Fair Elections Legal Network, Project Vote and the Brennan Center for Justice sent letters today to the Secretaries of State of Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska cautioning them that they must follow the federal National Voter Registration Act (NVRA) when cancelling the registration of voters whom they believe have moved. It was recently reported that the four states had compared their voter files to identify potentially duplicate registrations and while it appears that some of the states expressed appropriately cautious hesitation with respect to the purported duplicates, others may be acting to immediately cancel the names of individuals who appear on more than one state’s list without following the notice and waiting period requirements of the NVRA.

“Federal law establishes procedures that balance the state’s interest in maintaining accurate voter rolls with eligible voters’ interests in remaining on the voter rolls and casting their ballots,” said Karen Neuman, Legal Director of the Fair Elections Legal Network. “It is important that states follow these procedures when acting on any information that a voter has moved, whether that information comes from a list-matching exercise, as in this instance, or from any other source,” Neuman said.

[jimnyc]

Liesmatter starts to dance away from looking like the asshole she is!! :dance:

[Trigg]

http://projectvote.org/newsroom/project-vote-news/press-release.html?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=1392&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=180&cHash=555bc6e0a5


NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release:

Voting Rights Groups Caution Four Midwestern States Over Program to Identify and Cancel Duplicate Voter Registrations
December 18, 2007

WASHINGTON, DC - A four-state effort to identify and remove duplicate names from state voter registration lists may run afoul of a federal voting law by illegally purging voters, advocates warned in letters to four Midwestern secretaries of state. The Fair Elections Legal Network, Project Vote and the Brennan Center for Justice sent letters today to the Secretaries of State of Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska cautioning them that they must follow the federal National Voter Registration Act (NVRA) when cancelling the registration of voters whom they believe have moved. It was recently reported that the four states had compared their voter files to identify potentially duplicate registrations and while it appears that some of the states expressed appropriately cautious hesitation with respect to the purported duplicates, others may be acting to immediately cancel the names of individuals who appear on more than one state’s list without following the notice and waiting period requirements of the NVRA.

“Federal law establishes procedures that balance the state’s interest in maintaining accurate voter rolls with eligible voters’ interests in remaining on the voter rolls and casting their ballots,” said Karen Neuman, Legal Director of the Fair Elections Legal Network. “It is important that states follow these procedures when acting on any information that a voter has moved, whether that information comes from a list-matching exercise, as in this instance, or from any other source,” Neuman said.


Ok, these states are trying to clean up their voter rolls. What exactly is your problem here?????

They've been cautioned to follow the rules, from the articles it doesn't say any rules were broken.

[Trigg]

Does anyone know what happened with the NAACP charges brought against Louisiana when they wanted to purge voters?

The ONLY thing I can find is months old and only regarding the NAACP charges. Possibly no fault was found with the voter purge.

[MtnBiker]

The Kansas Democratic Party yesterday claimed that the Kansas Republican Party has unhatched a secret plan to prevent Democrats from voting by challenging their eligibility to vote. The Kansas Democratic Party bases this far-fetched claim on a recent email message to Kansas Republicans that was drafted by Kansas Republican Party Executive Director Christian Morgan. The message promoted Republican Get Out The Vote (GOTV) efforts by stating:

Our voter identification system is up and running giving us the capability to effectively mobilize voters and turn them out to vote on Election Day. To date, the Kansas GOP has identified and caged more voters in the last 11 months than the previous two years!

The Kansas Democratic Party, misunderstanding the word "caging," has accused the Kansas Republican Party of illegally engaging in vote suppression—eleven months before the election has even taken place! As Kansas GOP Executive Director Christian Morgan explained, "In the GOTV context, the term ‘caging’ refers to identifying the issues that are most important to a particular voter, so that when election time comes around, Republican candidates can send targeted literature to that voter that will encourage him to go out and vote, and even make campaign contributions to Republican candidates. When we say someone is ‘caged’ we mean that we are so confident that we can motivate that person to vote, he is effectively ‘locked in’ to vote for Republican candidates."

The Kansas Republican Party is committed to getting as many Kansans to the polls in 2008 as possible – including people who are not registered Republican. Polls consistently show that Kansans overwhelmingly support traditional Republican values. Consequently, the higher the voter turnout, the better it is for Kansas Republican Party.

Morgan explained the fallacies in the Kansas Democratic Party’s accusations: "The Democrats are claiming that we have sent tens of thousands of letters to registered Democrats in order to see which letters are returned for lack of a valid address. Then, according to the Democrats’ theory, we would challenge the right of these people to vote. There are three problems with their absurd theory:

1st—Under Kansas law, only a poll worker can challenge a voter’s eligibility to vote; the Republican Party couldn’t challenge such a voter even if we wanted to.

2nd—Under Kansas law, a voter with a non-current address still gets to vote anyway. Instead of casting a regular ballot, the voter just casts a provisional ballot. So the whole enterprise would be pointless.

3rd—Why in the world would the Kansas Republican Party send out an email to thousands of people proclaiming that the Party had engaged in potentially criminal activity?"

The Kansas Democratic Party has now joined fringe left wing organizations by promoting such bizarre conspiracy theories.

Kansas Republican Party Chairman Kobach stated, "The people of Kansas know better than to take these accusations seriously. The accusations don’t even make sense, since under Kansas law, only an election worker can challenge the eligibility of a voter. It appears that the Democratic Party is espousing this lunatic conspiracy theory in order to fool Kansans and distract attention from the scandal surrounding Democratic Attorney General Paul Morrison."

"This lunatic theory is right up there with the left wing’s conspiracy theory that George W. Bush staged the attacks of September 11th to help him get reelected. It is pure fantasy. These people need to get a grip on reality."

"Wait until they hear about our new Star Trek teleporting machine to instantly send all Republican voters to the polls," Kobach joked.


http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/12856872.html

:tinfoil:

[Gunny]

OK I fixed the link.

Go and defend your party for thier illegal actions.


http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/kobach.htm

Sad thing is this guy is also a law professor

The link goes to a bio, that further links to Op-Eds. Where are the actual FACTS to support your assertion in the thread title?

[Pale Rider]

Does anyone know what happened with the NAACP charges brought against Louisiana when they wanted to purge voters?

The ONLY thing I can find is months old and only regarding the NAACP charges. Possibly no fault was found with the voter purge.

Ya know... no one should care what this racist group does. They don't have any more credibility than the naaWp does. They're both racially motivated and biased.

And from reading through this thread, once again I'm convinced it's a good idea to just stear clear of anything liesmatter posts. You might just as well do this... :bang3:

[truthmatters]

Please produce what you claim is a lie?




The R party was proven guilty of just this type of tactic in 1986.

Tim Griffen also resigned after a congressman asked for docs related to just this tactic. He was Karl Rove right hand man.

http://www.gregpalast.com/rove-pick-for-us-attorney-resigns-following-conyers%e2%80%99-request-for-bbc-documents/


June 1, 2007

Tim Griffin, formerly right hand man to Karl Rove, resigned Thursday as US Attorney for Arkansas hours after BBC Television ‘Newsnight’ reported that Congressman John Conyers requested the network’s evidence on Griffin’s involvement in ‘caging voters.’ Greg Palast, reporting for BBC Newsnight, obtained a series of confidential emails from the 2004 Bush-Cheney campaign. In these emails, Griffin, then the GOP Deputy Communications Director, transmitted so-called ‘caging lists’ of voters to state party leaders.

Experts have concluded the caging lists were designed for a mass challenge of voters’ right to cast ballots. The caging lists were heavily weighted with minority voters including homeless individuals, students and soldiers sent overseas.

Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee investigating the firing of US Attorneys, met Thursday evening in New York with Palast. After reviewing key documents, Conyers stated that, despite Griffin’s resignation, “We’re not through with him by any means.”

Conyers indicated to the BBC that he thought it unlikely that Griffin could carry out this massive ‘caging’ operation without the knowledge of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Rove.







It seems this stupid Republican in Kansas also doesnt follow the news.

Vote caging is illegal.

[Kathianne]

Please produce what you claim is a lie?




The R party was proven guilty of just this type of tactic in 1986. Who was convicted? You do know that's is what guilty means.


Tim Griffen also resigned after a congressman asked for docs related to just this tactic. He was Karl Rove right hand man.

http://www.gregpalast.com/rove-pick-for-us-attorney-resigns-following-conyers%e2%80%99-request-for-bbc-documents/





It seems this stupid Republican in Kansas also doesnt follow the news.

Vote caging is illegal.Gee other than your source, and other left wing sources that quote it, can't find a thing. Perhaps your source got it wrong? I know you never would.

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging#Examples_of_proven_or_alleged_politica l_caging

The Washington Post[11]: "In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'" The Republican National Committee reportedly stopped the practice following the consent decree in the 1986 case, but allegations of RNC-conducted voter caging arose once again in the 2004 elections.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_decree

A consent decree is a judicial decree expressing a voluntary agreement between parties to a suit, especially an agreement by a defendant to cease activities alleged by the government to be illegal in return for an end to the charges.

A consent decree can be either interlocutory or final. The former is given on some plea or issue arising in the cause which does not decide the main question; the latter settles the matter in dispute, and a final decree has the same effect as a judgment at law.

Once entered, a consent decree is binding on the consenting parties and cannot be reviewed except on a showing that the consent was obtained by fraud or that the decree was based on mutual error or a failure of consent.

Consent decrees are used most commonly in criminal law and family law.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Griffin#US_Attorney_appointment


US Attorney appointment
See also: Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy
On December 15, 2006, the Justice Department announced that Griffin would be appointed interim United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas on December 20, 2006. Cummins resigned effective December 20, upon being informed of the announcement. Griffin had been working since September 2006 as a special assistant U.S. attorney in the Cummins office, in anticipation of the appointment.[7][8][9][10]

Before a March 2006 revision to the PATRIOT Act, interim U.S. Attorneys had a 120-day term limit, pending confirmation by the Senate of a Presidential nominee. The Attorney General makes interim appointments; after the revision, the Attorney General's interim appointees had no term limit, effectively bypassing the Senate confirmation process if the President declined to put forward a nomination. Griffin was among the first group of interim attorneys appointed by the Attorney General without a term limit.[11]

Gonzales' decision to bypass confirmation for Griffin particularly angered Arkansas' two U.S. Senators, Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor. Both Lincoln and Pryor claim that Gonzales promised them Griffin would go before the Senate for confirmation. Gonzales' decision not to do so prompted Lincoln and Pryor to join many of their Democratic colleagues in demanding Gonzales' resignation or firing.[12]

Documents released by a subsequent Congressional investigation showed that, in the summer of 2006, White House officials wanted a vacant slot in Little Rock, Arkansas, so Griffin could fill it.[13] Prior to this he was a top Republican researcher and aide to Rove.[14] He was hand selected by Rove to be a US Attorney.[15] On February 16, 2007, 10 days after McNulty testified that Cummins was dismissed in order to make a vacancy for Griffin to be appointed to, Griffin announced that he would not seek the presidential nomination to be U.S. attorney in Little Rock.[16]

On March 14, 2007 the Arkansas Leader wrote about Griffin his "resignation or dismissal ought to be imminent".[17] Gonzales testified in his January 18, 2007 appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee:[8] "I am fully committed, as the administration's fully committed, to ensure that, with respect to every United States attorney position in this country, we will have a presidentially appointed, Senate confirmed United States attorney."[8] On May 30, 2007, Palast turned over a series of 500 emails — potential evidence of a crime — by request from House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers; the e-mails were inadvertently sent to the wrong email address, by Griffin. [18]

On May 30, 2007, Griffin resigned from his position effective June 1, 2007.[19]

[Kathianne]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging#Examples_of_proven_or_alleged_politica l_caging


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_decree




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Griffin#US_Attorney_appointment

Pssst, wikki is supposed to be a first source for finding sources, not last resort...

[truthmatters]

Dont you even watch the news?

all of this is documented in congressional testimony.

[Kathianne]

Dont you even watch the news?

all of this is documented in congressional testimony.

:laugh2:

[Mr. P]

TM, why do you want illegal votes cast?
Why do you not want voters to be legally registered?
What is your problem with voting LAWs?

[truthmatters]

What part do you have questions about?

I go show you.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7422-2004Oct28.html

This article mentions the 1986 case

[Dilloduck]

What part do you have questions about?

I go show you.

TM--it's the last day of 2007. HAVE SOME FUN (that doesn't include masochism !!)

[truthmatters]

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/archive/2007_05_01_archive.html



this mentions Griffins resignation.





This one talks of the Emails. dont forget they can trace where Emails come from.

http://political-analysis.org/polit8/id1.html





Now that there is not questioning the facts what do you say?

[jimnyc]

What part do you have questions about?

I go show you.

"I go show you"

"Oooga Oooga"

"Me not very bright"

"Uuumph Ahhhhh"

"Duh, how many lumps would you like, 3 or 4?"

You are an idiot. You are illiterate. You can't think any better than a goldfish. You are looked upon here as an old lady with serious mental and learning deficiencies.

[Dilloduck]

"I go show you"

"Oooga Oooga"

"Me not very bright"

"Uuumph Ahhhhh"

"Duh, how many lumps would you like, 3 or 4?"

You are an idiot. You are illiterate. You can't think any better than a goldfish. You are looked upon here as an old lady with serious mental and learning deficiencies.

TM is an old lady ?????????????? :laugh2::laugh2:

[Kathianne]

TM is an old lady ?????????????? :laugh2::laugh2:

No. I'm an old Lady, she's just not very bright. :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

"I go show you"

"Oooga Oooga"

"Me not very bright"

"Uuumph Ahhhhh"

"Duh, how many lumps would you like, 3 or 4?"

You are an idiot. You are illiterate. You can't think any better than a goldfish. You are looked upon here as an old lady with serious mental and learning deficiencies.

Wow that is amazing how this post just made all those pesky facts just dissapear.

[jimnyc]

Wow that is amazing how this post just made all those pesky facts just dissapear.

All of your supposed "illiterate facts" never existed to begin with other than inside your egg shaped head. You were already proven wrong on the original thread topic multiple times and now you want to swerve off topic a bit to deflect away from the fact that you were proven wrong for the 500th time on this board. Your original topic is almost impossible as stated by MtnBiker and his references which you of course ignored.

Now please, it's New Years Eve, go have some champagne and down it with a shit sandwich.

[truthmatters]

Go get the definition to the term vote caging.

Not caging list but vote caging.

[jimnyc]

Go get the definition to the term vote caging.

Not caging list but vote caging.

As applied in the email you yourself referred to in your opening article, the successful caging of voters is 100% legal. While you can play semantics with terms that people use, the use of direct mail to verify voting registration is legal. When done in a way to purposely target by race, then it's illegal. You've been asked to produce proof that they used illegal techniques and you ignored those requests as well. And with MtnBiker's post as a reference, the whole point becomes moot as they couldn't have suppressed voters if they wanted to.

Simply put, vote caging is an illegal trick to suppress minority voters, and I see NOTHING at all to show this is the case.

[Kathianne]

As applied in the email you yourself referred to in your opening article, the successful caging of voters is 100% legal. While you can play semantics with terms that people use, the use of direct mail to verify voting registration is legal. When done in a way to purposely target by race, then it's illegal. You've been asked to produce proof that they used illegal techniques and you ignored those requests as well. And with MtnBiker's post as a reference, the whole point becomes moot as they couldn't have suppressed voters if they wanted to.

Simply put, vote caging is an illegal trick to suppress minority voters, and I see NOTHING at all to show this is the case.

Jim, you are trying to be rational, stop it!

[truthmatters]

There is a differance between a caging list and vote caging.

You can continue to pretend the link says what it doesnt say but you would still be wrong.

Please show me any citation which says VOTE CAGING is legal?

[jimnyc]

There is a differance between a caging list and vote caging.

You can continue to pretend the link says what it doesnt say but you would still be wrong.

Please show me any citation which says VOTE CAGING is legal?

First show us that anyone engaged in the illegal suppression of voters. The term "caging" itself can be used in various manners, and you nutcases are simply taking what he stated and are trying to make it sound as if he was referring to illegal vote caging, which not only happened, but is virtually impossible to do in the state discussed. There is vote caging, and there is ILLEGAL vote caging.

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging#Voter_suppression


Monica Goodling cited the existence and concern about "vote caging" in her written and oral testimony to the United States House Judiciary Committee on May 23, 2007, mentioning that Tim Griffin, who was appointed as interim United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas, would have allegations of vote caging arise if ever presented to be confirmed by the Senate to the office, and that the Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty "failed to disclose that he had some knowledge of allegations that Tim Griffin had been involved in vote-caging during his work on the president's 2004 campaign."

Note this is the first use of the Term "vote caging" in this whole article and it is said to be a "problem" for Tim Griffin.

Vote caging as in isolating a vote to twart the voter is illegal.

[PostmodernProphet]

Please show me any citation which says VOTE CAGING is legal?

that which has not been declared unlawful by statute, is lawful....

there is no statute which declares caging as unlawful....

therefore, caging is lawful.......

[jimnyc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_caging#Voter_suppression


Monica Goodling cited the existence and concern about "vote caging" in her written and oral testimony to the United States House Judiciary Committee on May 23, 2007, mentioning that Tim Griffin, who was appointed as interim United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas, would have allegations of vote caging arise if ever presented to be confirmed by the Senate to the office, and that the Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty "failed to disclose that he had some knowledge of allegations that Tim Griffin had been involved in vote-caging during his work on the president's 2004 campaign."

Yo, stupid, STOP posting the same shit over and over! That has NOTHING to do with our discussion and doesn't answer what was asked of you.

[Mr. P]

Somebody pull her battery out, PLEASE! :laugh2:

[Kathianne]

Yo, stupid, STOP posting the same shit over and over! That has NOTHING to do with our discussion and doesn't answer what was asked of you.

Jim, listen to me please. If you keep going down this path, your head will explode. That is an awful fate for your wife, child, mother, and siblings. Stop. Please. She will never make sense. You keep reaching for the rational, it's not going to happen. *twilight zone theme*