why is no attention paid to fornication, but a lot of attention paid to homosexuals

[actsnoblemartin]

According to god, (whether you agree or not) Both fornication... sex before marriage and homosexuality are sins, so why dont both get equal condemnation?

your thoughts?

[mrg666]

Traditional Church teaching falsely misuses the Bible to judge loving, responsible singles' sexuality. True Biblical theology begins not with Church tradition and dogma but with the biblical texts themselves. Biblical theology seeks to understand how the biblical authors expressed themselves in the Greek language of New Testament times (not expanded by later Greek meanings), in terms of their culture. Only with this understanding is it legitimate to define biblical sexual ethics of the NT and find implications for today

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/fornication.html

[Hagbard Celine]

The church seeks to suppress God's natural order. It attempts to enslave humanity by putting itself in between the people and God. It keeps it's power by spreading fear of punishment and offering itself up as the answer.

[Cheyenne]

I don't particularly like the link that 666 posted but he is partially right. I usually part company with other clergy on this matter.

The definition of fornication is, "criminal sex". I classify this as when a man preys upon women with no intent other than for sex alone.
Nor should sex be done casually and with multiple partners. Sex is a privilege of the marital relationship. But in the context of a serious relationship; where a couple is engaged to be married, the commitment has already been made, they are betrothed, waiting for the legalization of the union.

The Bible states that homosexuality & fornication is an "abomination"; both are controllable acts, the same as gossip & the other offenses stated in the Bible verse so commonly quoted.


The church seeks to suppress God's natural order. It attempts to enslave humanity by putting itself in between the people and God. It keeps it's power by spreading fear of punishment and offering itself up as the answer.
And what is "God's natural order"?
I do not believe in preaching 'hell & damnation' but if you think sin is going to go unpunished, you're sadly mistaken.

[Yurt]

I believe that homosexuality is the only sin/act that is called an "abomination".

[typomaniac]

The definition of fornication is, "criminal sex". I classify this as when a man preys upon women with no intent other than for sex alone.
If a man does that to a woman who wants a life partner, I can understand the "criminality" aspect. But what if neither one of them wants anything more than a one-night stand? How can it be fornication, then, according to the above definition?

[gabosaurus]

This thread is really fornicated up. :)

[typomaniac]

Go fornicate yourself.

[PostmodernProphet]

I believe that homosexuality is the only sin/act that is called an "abomination".

no, idolatry, human sacrifice and bestiality are also mentioned using the same word in the original Hebrew......there are other acts which are called "abominations" in the English translation but that use a different word in the original......

and, by the way, homosexuality is not called an abomination, sexual relations between men is......a celibate homosexual is not an abomination......

[gabosaurus]

Don't look at me. I am still trying to figure out why lesbian sex is acceptable, but gay sex is an "abomination."

[Yurt]

no, idolatry, human sacrifice and bestiality are also mentioned using the same word in the original Hebrew......there are other acts which are called "abominations" in the English translation but that use a different word in the original......

and, by the way, homosexuality is not called an abomination, sexual relations between men is......a celibate homosexual is not an abomination......

that is correct and i have said that before, just assumed all knew my stance.

[Yurt]

Don't look at me. I am still trying to figure out why lesbian sex is acceptable, but gay sex is an "abomination."

do you know what an anus is?

[5stringJeff]

Don't look at me. I am still trying to figure out why lesbian sex is acceptable, but gay sex is an "abomination."

Neither are acceptable. See Romans chapter 1.

[Yurt]

Neither are acceptable. See Romans chapter 1.

are you talking about this:

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

[OCA]

are you talking about this:

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


That would be the one Yurt!

Knowing that that little diddy is in the New Testament always makes me shake my head when you hear about some queer clergyperson saying that queers can make it into heaven as practicing queers.

[avatar4321]

what makes you think that no attention is paid to fornication. Who exactly do you think is promoting abstinence?

[Yurt]

That would be the one Yurt!

Knowing that that little diddy is in the New Testament always makes me shake my head when you hear about some queer clergyperson saying that queers can make it into heaven as practicing queers.

yeah, that is a head scratcher. those clergy should be removed from the proverbial cloth.

[5stringJeff]

are you talking about this:

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Yes.

[gabosaurus]

Sex is good. Everyone should try it.

[Yurt]

Sex is good. Everyone should try it.

ok george michael...

[mrg666]

Don't look at me. I am still trying to figure out why lesbian sex is acceptable, but gay sex is an "abomination."

lesbian sex is errotic (ive seen the movies ) male homo sex is disgusting :laugh2:

[typomaniac]

do you know what an anus is?

Uranus is too far away to matter. :laugh:

[Cheyenne]

If a man does that to a woman who wants a life partner, I can understand the "criminality" aspect. But what if neither one of them wants anything more than a one-night stand? How can it be fornication, then, according to the above definition?I don't know how old you are or life-experienced, but do you think a woman, who meets a man & drops her drawers, is honorable?



I believe that homosexuality is the only sin/act that is called an "abomination". Afraid not, Yurt.
And the word "abomination" means "to loathe". We act like the word abomination carries more weight.
Proud look, lying tongue, murder, heart that devises a wicked imagination, feet swift to run to mischief, a false witness that causes discord, incest, idolatry, argumentative/obstinate. Lev. 18; Deut 7 & 29; Proverbs 3, 6, & 8.
In Rev. 21, abominable is listed along with murders, whoremongers, sorcerors, idolaters, liars, unbelieving.

[glockmail]

According to god, (whether you agree or not) Both fornication... sex before marriage and homosexuality are sins, so why dont both get equal condemnation?

your thoughts?
Catholic teaching forbids sex outside of marraige- therefore both get equal condemnation.

[Kathianne]

Catholic teaching forbids sex outside of marraige- therefore both get equal condemnation.

Got that right. Same in the misunderstanding regarding Catholics and divorce. Legally divorced but not having sex, ok. Receiving sacraments is ok. Have sex, committing adultery, either go to confession and MEAN IT or no sacraments. Get married again, without annulment, bigamy-big sin. No sacraments.

[gabosaurus]

I don't know how old you are or life-experienced, but do you think a woman, who meets a man & drops her drawers, is honorable?

What about the man who meets and woman and drops his drawers, or perhaps pays for such. This is the age-old double standard at work -- men are expected to look for sex. Women who give sex are dishonorable and "slutty."

Fornication is not always a bad thing. It is certainly no worse that men wasting their seed through self pleasure. Which the Bible also cautions against.
Given the choice, I prefer fornication. I know some of you guys don't have that choice though. :)

[glockmail]

What about the man who meets and woman and drops his drawers, or perhaps pays for such. This is the age-old double standard at work -- men are expected to look for sex. Women who give sex are dishonorable and "slutty."
..... The one making the assumptions here is you. Both the man and woman trou-droppers are sluts. :finger3:

[darin]

Catholic teaching forbids sex outside of marraige- therefore both get equal condemnation.

In order to have a thread, he had to draw the very false conclusion "No" attention is paid to fornication. His thread title may have been less enticing had he written "Not as much."

Either way the premise is false. Christianity forbids both practices. Just as being hot for a girl, aroused for her isn't fornication (so long as it's not 'lust'), being 'attracted' to another of your gender isn't 'homosexuality' - it's 'confusion'.


t is certainly no worse that men wasting their seed through self pleasure. Which the Bible also cautions against.

...no it doesn't. Read it before you proclaim it ;)

[gabosaurus]

no it doesn't. Read it before you proclaim it ;)

Sorry dude. In the Bible, masturbation is seen as "self abuse" and "unlawful sexual relations." 1 Corinthians 6:18 states that unlawful sexual relations defiles your body.


Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

So quit now, while you're ahead. :laugh2:

[darin]

Sorry dude. In the Bible, masturbation is seen as "self abuse" and "unlawful sexual relations."


By whom? Where? Never. The bible never directly, or even in-directly, IMO, forbids or even MENTIONS masturbation



1 Corinthians 6:18 states that unlawful sexual relations defiles your body.



IN CONTEXT - not sure if you're familiar with that term - the passage contains instructions to flee sexual impurity.

Here's the whole thing:


18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

[typomaniac]

I don't know how old you are or life-experienced, but do you think a woman, who meets a man & drops her drawers, is honorable?
If she's straightforward about letting him know that all she's interested in is an encounter with no strings attached, how is that "dishonorable?"

[Abbey Marie]

I finally changed "payed" to "paid". Twice. Acch.

[Cheyenne]

What about the man who meets and woman and drops his drawers, or perhaps pays for such. This is the age-old double standard at work -- men are expected to look for sex. Women who give sex are dishonorable and "slutty."

Fornication is not always a bad thing. It is certainly no worse that men wasting their seed through self pleasure. Which the Bible also cautions against.
Given the choice, I prefer fornication. I know some of you guys don't have that choice though. :)
We had all ready mentioned dishonorable men & Typo wanted to know if both agreed how that was wrong; thus women who drop their drawers. No where did I say that one sex ( men or women) was more exempt than the other.

Criminal sex is always a bad thing. Sex is not. And as far as the Bible reference you're making, you might want to read the whole story.




If she's straightforward about letting him know that all she's interested in is an encounter with no strings attached, how is that "dishonorable?You are referring to dishonorable as "I am truthful, upfront". I am referring to dishonorable as, a woman dishonoring her body.

[typomaniac]

You are referring to dishonorable as "I am truthful, upfront". I am referring to dishonorable as, a woman dishonoring her body.As long as she takes reasonable precautions to keep her body healthy, how is she dishonoring it?

[Cheyenne]

As long as she takes reasonable precautions to keep her body healthy, how is she dishonoring it?Would you think I'm too forward if I ask you your age?

What exactly are "reasonable precautions"? You're referring to STDs & pregnancy?
What about treating her body like the temple it is? What about esteem? What about future relationships; saving that most intimate part of yourself to share it with the one person you choose above all others in which to spend your life in the bonds of marriage?
When exactly does a person (male or female) become a whore? I mean what constitutes the title? Is it motive? Is sleeping with 5 people okay but 25 or 105 isn't? Or does it make a difference?

[typomaniac]

Would you think I'm too forward if I ask you your age?Not at all. In the immortal words of Getty Lee, I'm "old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it." :)


What exactly are "reasonable precautions"? You're referring to STDs & pregnancy?You bet.

What about treating her body like the temple it is? What about esteem? What about future relationships; saving that most intimate part of yourself to share it with the one person you choose above all others in which to spend your life in the bonds of marriage?That might be what sex means for you personally, but I'm sure that you don't speak for the whole of womankind when it comes to sex.
When exactly does a person (male or female) become a whore? I mean what constitutes the title? Is it motive? Is sleeping with 5 people okay but 25 or 105 isn't? Or does it make a difference?When you charge money for it. That's what prostitution is. Otherwise it's just having fun.

[Said1]

Not at all. In the immortal words of Getty Lee, I'm "old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it." :).


Getty Lee? :slap:

Pfffft. Say no more.

[Cheyenne]

Not at all. In the immortal words of Getty Lee, I'm "old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it." :)I have to agree with Said1.


You bet.So you think that's all she (or he) needs to protect themselves against?

That might be what sex means for you personally, but I'm sure that you don't speak for the whole of womankind when it comes to sex. When you charge money for it. That's what prostitution is. Otherwise it's just having fun.You are correct. I seem to not find favor with neither saints nor sinners. I am for sex; but within certain parameters.
Today's young women still believe the sex liberation lie. It doesn't/didn't work. And the sooner they learn this, the better things will be.

And yes, having sex is fun. But this comment of yours tells me you really don't understand where I'm coming from on sex.

[avatar4321]

I have to agree with Said1.

So you think that's all she (or he) needs to protect themselves against?
You are correct. I seem to not find favor with neither saints nor sinners. I am for sex; but within certain parameters.
Today's young women still believe the sex liberation lie. It doesn't/didn't work. And the sooner they learn this, the better things will be.

And yes, having sex is fun. But this comment of yours tells me you really don't understand where I'm coming from on sex.

No one is against sex. Some of us simply understand the long term physical and spiritual consequences of sex outside marriage and try to help people see the danger is in believing there are no consequences.

[Cheyenne]

No one is against sex.Oh but there are.

Ps. May I refer you to the Science & Health forum with the thread title 20 million sexless marriages?

[typomaniac]

I have to agree with Said1.I had the misfortune to be stuck with a Rush (band)-obsessed roommate in college. Haven't been able to get the music completely out of my head ever since.

It's a serious problem; I've even thought about surgery. :)

[Cheyenne]

I had the misfortune to be stuck with a Rush (band)-obsessed roommate in college. Haven't been able to get the music completely out of my head ever since.

It's a serious problem; I've even thought about surgery. :)Oh, so you do have a sense of humor. :clap:

[Said1]

I had the misfortune to be stuck with a Rush (band)-obsessed roommate in college. Haven't been able to get the music completely out of my head ever since.

It's a serious problem; I've even thought about surgery. :)


Phew. Only dinks listened to RUSH.

[typomaniac]

And yes, having sex is fun. But this comment of yours tells me you really don't understand where I'm coming from on sex.

Trust me: when it comes to sex, all women are coming from the same place. ;)

So are all men, for that matter.

[Cheyenne]

Trust me: when it comes to sex, all women are coming from the same place. ;)

So are all men, for that matter.I beg to differ with you. But I get the sense you're bored now, so whenever you want to get into this discussion again, give me a shout.

[typomaniac]

I beg to differ with you. But I get the sense you're bored now, so whenever you want to get into this discussion again, give me a shout.
Um...actually, my last post was a pun. :poke:

As far as the actual discussion goes, however, we should probably agree to disagree. We seem to be too far apart to do much more.

[Cheyenne]

Um...actually, my last post was a pun. :poke: Yeah, I noticed the ~wink~.


As far as the actual discussion goes, however, we should probably agree to disagree. We seem to be too far apart to do much more.That may be, but then you really didn't allow me to plead my case, did you?

[gabosaurus]

What good is considering your body to be a temple if you don't allow followers to worship at it?

[avatar4321]

What good is considering your body to be a temple if you don't allow followers to worship at it?

People werent allowed inside Temples without preparation and training.

[glockmail]

Phew. Only dinks listened to RUSH. Haven't heard that term in 35 years! :lol: