"Trapped Like Animals" On Jet Blue

[-Cp]

Question to you all - if this happened to you, what would you do? I for one, would be getting OFF that damn plane.. I don't care if I had to open up a door and pop the emergency slide... they will not keep me imprisoned:


JFK JetBlue Passengers Face Turmoil On The Tarmac

JetBlue Airlines apologized late Wednesday to dozens of passengers who were kept sitting on planes at New York's JFK Airport for 10 hours or more without ever taking off.

The airline said half of its 550 flights were cancelled because of a winter storm that also caused massive traffic and transit delays throughout the Tri-State area.

Ten JetBlue flights, however, were loaded with passengers on board. Some made it to the runways only to run into icing problems that kept them grounded. Some of the planes at the gate became frozen to the ground and passengers weren't able to disembark.

One couple told CBS 2 News they thought they were about to honeymoon in Aruba. Others were dreaming of the sun and warm waters of Cancun. Instead, many said they felt like hostages being held on the tarmac.

"We had very limited toilet usage while we were on the plane," said Elizabeth Regale, who logged 10 hours of what she described as hell on a trip to nowhere.

"To sit on a plane for that long to be pulled into a gate for nine hours was horrible," said another passenger.

Early Thursday morning, the airline's Web site warned that other "flights to and from New York City (JFK, LaGuardia, Stewart and Newark, NJ), Boston, Washington D.C. and Upstate New York (Rochester and Buffalo) may be delayed or cancelled." It urged passengers to check the status of their flight before heading to their local airports.

JetBlue's apology said anyone stuck on one of its flights for more than three hours Wednesday would receive a full refund and a free roundtrip ticket for a future flight.

Some, however, were in no mood to accept that apology.

"Disorganized. No one knows anything. It's all chaos," said one.

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_046052033.html

[jillian]

It was a horrible situation and I'd have been livid. But if ya pop the door, you get arrested. Not exactly worth it.

That said, Jet Blue owes these people bigtime. We were stuck on a flight to Puerto Rico for 3 hours (different airline). Wouldn't have been so terrible except that there was nothing to feed my son and they wouldn't give any snacks or drinks to the kids. Of course, when the same thing happened on the flight before ours, they let Alec Baldwin get off and go to the bar. :flameth:

[-Cp]

It was a horrible situation and I'd have been livid. But if ya pop the door, you get arrested. Not exactly worth it.
'

Really? And what would the charge be? MAYBE "Disorderly conduct" - that carries a light penalty - and on principle, it'd be worth it...

Not to mention you could easily turn around and sue the airline for false imprisonment...

[darin]

It's the result of SOMEBODY afraid to make a decision. :(

[jillian]

'

Really? And what would the charge be? MAYBE "Disorderly conduct" - that carries a light penalty - and on principle, it'd be worth it...

Not to mention you could easily turn around and sue the airline for false imprisonment...

Actually, you'd be charged with a Federal Crime, not disorderly conduct, and there wouldn't be any lawsuit for unlawful imprisonment....

Now, I'm not saying it's not exasperating or that you wouldn't have any right to be angry. But I don't think the principle is worth the time in a Federal prison.

Just saying.

[jillian]

It's the result of SOMEBODY afraid to make a decision. :(

Might be. Certainly a lack of preparation.... or caring about the customer.

[Abbey Marie]

Well, seeing as I am claustrophobic, I would have gone nutso on them. They probably would have had to sedate me and/or take me off the plane in handcuffs.

[jillian]

Well, seeing as I am claustrophobic, I would have gone nutso on them. They probably would have had to sedate me and/or take me off the plane in handcuffs.

That's why G-d made valium. ;)

[Abbey Marie]

That's why G-d made valium. ;)

I must be the only person who has never had one.

Are they handing those out on flights now? Exxxxceleeeeent!! :wink2:

[jillian]

I must be the only person whose never had one.

Are they handing those out on flight snow? Exxxxceleeeeent!! :wink2:

Heh! Nah... you have to have your own. But Bloody Mary's work just as well. :cheers2:

[Ado]

It's ridiculous to hold people that long.

They knew the conditions; it sounds like flights
should have been canceled, but they didn't want
to lose the income.

Some of the passengers are pushing for passenger
bill of rights so they legally can only be held for
3 hours, in these types of situations.

It is a wonder there wasn't some type of
altercation.

[5stringJeff]

JetBlue is only partially to blame. How about the Port Authority of New York, who left the plane on the runway for 9 hours?

[darin]

JetBlue is only partially to blame. How about the Port Authority of New York, who left the plane on the runway for 9 hours?

The organization with the deepest pockets is ALWAYS to blame.

[Roopull]

The story I read said there were either 10 or 12 flights that this happened to. I'd wager that JetBlue's "discount airline" status has something to do with THEM being the one catching the heat at certain news outlets.


Something similar happened to me about three years ago, but it was only for about two hours.


The last time we traveled to Dallas Texas from here in Atlanta, we drove... with our baby, it was a 16 hour drive. Flying has gotten to be such a degrading pain in the ass, I couldn't care less if ever damned airline went out of business.

If I wanted to be treated like a worthless dog with no rights, I'd just go bitch slap a cop. I sure wouldn't take 10 damn hours.:mad:

[Mr. P]

The story I read said there were either 10 or 12 flights that this happened to. I'd wager that JetBlue's "discount airline" status has something to do with THEM being the one catching the heat at certain news outlets.


Something similar happened to me about three years ago, but it was only for about two hours.


The last time we traveled to Dallas Texas from here in Atlanta, we drove... with our baby, it was a 16 hour drive. Flying has gotten to be such a degrading pain in the ass, I couldn't care less if ever damned airline went out of business.

If I wanted to be treated like a worthless dog with no rights, I'd just go bitch slap a cop. I sure wouldn't take 10 damn hours.:mad:


Time to spare? Go by air!

After 28 years in aviation I refuse to fly an airline unless I just have no other choice. (there are many reasons for that position)

[Ado]

The last time I flew, I felt like cattle.

[Mr. P]

The last time I flew, I felt like cattle.

Guess what? That's how they refer to you too, as cattle.

[Ado]

Guess what? That's how they refer to you too, as cattle.

hmmph. Well they only get my money
now if I have no choice.

[Roopull]

Time to spare? Go by air!

After 28 years in aviation I refuse to fly an airline unless I just have no other choice. (there are many reasons for that position)
Yeah, for us, having some uneducated piece of shit say she needed my 7 month pregnant wife to bare her stomach in a crowded airport to prove she was pregnant almost got me arrested.

Once we're on the planes, usually things go smoothly... the problem is, it's a three hour ordeal to get on the damn plane!

[Sitarro]

The story I read said there were either 10 or 12 flights that this happened to. I'd wager that JetBlue's "discount airline" status has something to do with THEM being the one catching the heat at certain news outlets.


Something similar happened to me about three years ago, but it was only for about two hours.


The last time we traveled to Dallas Texas from here in Atlanta, we drove... with our baby, it was a 16 hour drive. Flying has gotten to be such a degrading pain in the ass, I couldn't care less if ever damned airline went out of business.

If I wanted to be treated like a worthless dog with no rights, I'd just go bitch slap a cop. I sure wouldn't take 10 damn hours.:mad:


The flying public, how special. This is long and if you want to continue through life without a clue as to what is involved in getting your spoiled ass to where ever you're going in 4 hours or less, don't read it.

Having four brothers that work for a major airline and recently having gone to work for the same one I have a little insight. The American public is to blame for the airlines that we have. You, the flying public want to ride hassle free on perfectly maintained new aircraft with gourmet chefs, the best trained flight crews, easy chair comfort, movies, flight attendants that look like models with wonderful motherly attitudes, free drinks, perfect weather, no turbulence, luggage at the carousel immediately, be allowed to bore everyone around you with nonstop cell phone calls, carry on as much luggage as you want, as heavy as you want, with as little security as you want but still have a perfectly safe flight, be on time or even early or else give you free hotel and round trip tickets for your whole family..... and you want all of this for the price of taking a Greyhound bus. Guess what, not possible.

Airplanes are incredibly complex machines with hundreds of thousands of parts, if a fuse goes out a certified mechanic has to come out and fix it or the aircraft cannot leave, FAA regulations.....if that mechanic forgets to sign the log book that aircraft has to wait for him/her to return to sign it. These aircraft as well as an airline in general are also incredibly expensive to operate. The crew cost, the fuel cost, maintenance, tires, new seat covers, blankets, pillows, food for everyone on board even though you are in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air, thousands of ramp personnel, ramp equipment, gate leases, training including aircraft simulators that are millions apiece, thousands of support employees including lawyers, accountants, marketing, airport landing fees, leasing of office space.....nobody I know has a clue how they could possibly make money and yet the public demands even cheaper flights.

If there is bad weather in Houston, thousands of flights a day will be effected across the United States. A late flight means late bags to connecting flights. Any bag that doesn't get on the aircraft that the passenger gets on has to go on the next available flight. It then has to be delivered to where ever that passenger is located, the airlines figure at least 100 dollars a bag and a pissed customer..... if a flight was late and those 8 passengers rushed to get on the connecting flight and yet TSA has held their bags for inspection, we aren't going to leave the gate late waiting for those bags, we are pushing out and hopefully while the aircraft is on the ramp starting it's engines a bag runner will get across the airport to us so we can open baggage and slide them in or else the airline might be out 1600 dollars. This happens hundreds of times a day.

I cannot possibly describe how incredibly complex the whole thing is, I am right in the middle of it and have no idea how anyone gets their bag. If you would see just a typical baggage room, the conveyor belts that go in every direction for blocks, get loaded on to carts, delivered to the gate and uploaded on the plane all because the ticket agent put the right code on the tag....it is amazing. While the aircraft is on the ground, depending on the size of the aircraft, you will have the person that directs the aircraft into the gate area(position 1 point man), the wing walkers(Positions 2 and 3) on each wing making sure a half million dollars of damage isn't done to a wing by hitting something in the way and possibly other helpers to run bags to the bag room and other bag runners for connecting flights, food catering, fueler and lavatory guy. The wing walkers chock the wheels and connect ground power and ac, open the forward and rear baggage doors and drive the belt loaders to the plane, they then enter the bins and download 150- 300 bags of all different sizes and weights, mail, cargo, dogs, cats and even tigers, dead bodies and assorted aircraft parts. While this is going on the point man is getting the load plan to see where everthing leaving will go.....basically a reverse of the download. Each bag is scanned as it is loaded, counted and stacked in the bin so it doesn't shift in mid flight. While this is happening the fueler is putting on thousands of gallons of jet fuel, the caterer is loading both galleys with food and drinks, the lavatory guy is emptying and refilling the blue water and sink water in all of the toilets. While all of this is happening the FAA might send over an inspector to mess with you or customs will show up to check some cargo. There is also the cleaning crew that is running through the plane replacing blankets and pillows with clean ones, vaccuming and cleaning the heads. All of this happens in an hour or less typically except for the really large wide body aircraft.

I have told you all this to make you aware of what actually goes on before the plane even leaves the gate a lot of which is done before you board....it is a tremendous amount of effort for every flight. No airline wants to waste that effort on never getting off the ground. They also don't want their customers sitting on an aircraft not going anywhere for 11 hours, that cost them a tremendous amount of money and it trickles to other flights to where it is more costly than you can imagine.

I am no fan of Jet Blue, they undercut real airlines by making deals with foreign aircraft makers(Airbus) that give them aircraft interest free to try to hurt American carriers. But I will not be silly enough to blame them for this. Look at regulations written by your favorite politicians, blame lawyers that help the politicians draft laws to cover them, look at the people that run the airport and the security.......non of these are going to lose money from this, the airline will and that is why I suspect it is less likely the airline that is to blame. What do they have to gain by keeping a crew and a flight full of passengers trapped in one of their planes? If 12 planes were stuck out on the ramp in the snow, how do you go about getting all of those passengers off without bringing them back to the gate and how do you bring them back to the gate if all of the gates are full? That is at least 1200-2000 people. If you get buses to them and you could get them off the plane how many bus trips would that take because I guarantee you this much, they wouldn't get cooperation from the understanding public. Everyone would demand their bags and everything else they brought on the plane.

The moral.....Check the weather before going to the airport, don't expect miracles, bring some real food to eat(you know airplane food sucks and yet you never bring your own), understand that there are many people that all want to be pampered and spoiled for the price of a bus ride and there is only so much that can be done and try to think of what you would do if you were in the other guy's shoes. One other thing, if you care about something never put it in baggage, that is all I will say about that but beleive me...I know.

[-Cp]

Actually, you'd be charged with a Federal Crime, not disorderly conduct, and there wouldn't be any lawsuit for unlawful imprisonment....

Now, I'm not saying it's not exasperating or that you wouldn't have any right to be angry. But I don't think the principle is worth the time in a Federal prison.

Just saying.

Really? And what would that crime be oh "wise one" ?

Seriously.... if you got off the plane anyway.. the media would be all over that story.. and there isn't a judge around who - under the circumstances - is going to give you any time in a federal prison.....

[-Cp]

No airline wants to waste that effort on never getting off the ground. They also don't want their customers sitting on an aircraft not going anywhere for 11 hours, that cost them a tremendous amount of money and it trickles to other flights to where it is more costly than you can imagine.

What do they have to gain by keeping a crew and a flight full of passengers trapped in one of their planes? If 12 planes were stuck out on the ramp in the snow, how do you go about getting all of those passengers off without bringing them back to the gate and how do you bring them back to the gate if all of the gates are full? That is at least 1200-2000 people. If you get buses to them and you could get them off the plane how many bus trips would that take because I guarantee you this much, they wouldn't get cooperation from the understanding public. Everyone would demand their bags and everything else they brought on the plane. [/QUOTE]

I dunno about you or anyone else... but I for one would be getting OFF that damn plane.... freakin' 11 hours at the gate.... in a pigs eye...

[Birdzeye]

I once was on a flight that landed in National Airport less than 10 minutes before a severe thunderstorm hit. The passengers had to wait in the plane till the storm went away - about 45 looong minutes - before we could get off.

That was for the safety of the ground crew, and I understand that, but boy, was I uncomfortable!

[Sitarro]

No airline wants to waste that effort on never getting off the ground. They also don't want their customers sitting on an aircraft not going anywhere for 11 hours, that cost them a tremendous amount of money and it trickles to other flights to where it is more costly than you can imagine.

What do they have to gain by keeping a crew and a flight full of passengers trapped in one of their planes? If 12 planes were stuck out on the ramp in the snow, how do you go about getting all of those passengers off without bringing them back to the gate and how do you bring them back to the gate if all of the gates are full? That is at least 1200-2000 people. If you get buses to them and you could get them off the plane how many bus trips would that take because I guarantee you this much, they wouldn't get cooperation from the understanding public. Everyone would demand their bags and everything else they brought on the plane.

I dunno about you or anyone else... but I for one would be getting OFF that damn plane.... freakin' 11 hours at the gate.... in a pigs eye...[/QUOTE]

I believe they were sitting near the runway not the gate and if you could get the door open and jumped from the height of a 737s door onto ice you would break something, either both ankles or legs. The Airbus is even higher. Think about it logically rather than emotionally, if it was remotely possible to get those people off of that plane without risking injury to the passengers, the aircraft or the crew.... wouldn't a company that depends on public perception have done whatever it takes to do just that?

My guess is that as is typical, the report is sorely lacking in any detail and is making the situation much more simplistic than it was, what is the rest of the story?

[Sitarro]

I once was on a flight that landed in National Airport less than 10 minutes before a severe thunderstorm hit. The passengers had to wait in the plane till the storm went away - about 45 looong minutes - before we could get off.

That was for the safety of the ground crew, and I understand that, but boy, was I uncomfortable!

That's right, if there is lightning around the airport the operations are halted for numerous reasons, your safety and mine are a couple of them. Just like the way the public wants to second guess politicians or sports figures from a place of complete ignorance so to do they want to second guess the oil industry and the airlines.

It could have been much worse Birdzeye, you could have been flying in that storm.

[-Cp]

I believe they were sitting near the runway not the gate and if you could get the door open and jumped from the height of a 737s door onto ice you would break something, either both ankles or legs. The Airbus is even higher. Think about it logically rather than emotionally, if it was remotely possible to get those people off of that plane without risking injury to the passengers, the aircraft or the crew.... wouldn't a company that depends on public perception have done whatever it takes to do just that?

My guess is that as is typical, the report is sorely lacking in any detail and is making the situation much more simplistic than it was, what is the rest of the story?

There is.... you pop the evacuation slide.....

[jillian]

I believe they were sitting near the runway not the gate and if you could get the door open and jumped from the height of a 737s door onto ice you would break something, either both ankles or legs. The Airbus is even higher. Think about it logically rather than emotionally, if it was remotely possible to get those people off of that plane without risking injury to the passengers, the aircraft or the crew.... wouldn't a company that depends on public perception have done whatever it takes to do just that?

My guess is that as is typical, the report is sorely lacking in any detail and is making the situation much more simplistic than it was, what is the rest of the story?


Actually, what I was told was that they'd have lost their place in line to take off if they got off the runway and they were hoping to get off the ground. They knew if the plane couldn't leave, the passengers wouldn't get another flight out either.

I don't know what other way there was to handle it.

[Birdzeye]

That's right, if there is lightning around the airport the operations are halted for numerous reasons, your safety and mine are a couple of those.

That's why I didn't complain. I also didn't complain about waiting for something like two hours for my luggage. The weather made things really chaotic that evening and lots of flights were being cancelled. At least I got in.

I called my husband and let him know I was OK and not to expect me home till around midnight.

[jillian]

There is.... you pop the evacuation slide.....

And go to federal prison.

[-Cp]

And go to federal prison.

Go there for what?

[jillian]

Go there for what?

It's a federal crime to obstruct the operation of an aircraft. Let me know how popping the slide works for you. I hear they'll let you have one phone call.

[Sitarro]

That's why I didn't complain. I also didn't complain about waiting for something like two hours for my luggage. The weather made things really chaotic that evening and lots of flights were being cancelled. At least I got in.

I called my husband and let him know I was OK and not to expect me home till around midnight.

Yes, luggage is unloaded manually onto a tug and cart system and then brought across the airport to the bag room and unloaded from the cart to a specific conveyor belt(usually by a single person, 250 bags is exhausting!) that then brings it to you.

We work in all types of cold, hot, wet and snowy conditions hoping to not fall or be run over by ground equipment or something which would be the ultimate in "on the job injury", getting sucked into a running jet engine. Injuries are often and the pay is a joke but it is so worth it knowing how understanding and thankful the flying public are, many should go back to riding on a bus where they would be more comfortable and they obviously belong.

Oh by the way, at current gas prices....if you were to drive from L.A. to New York (it is over 3000 miles) and your vehicle gets 30 miles to the gallon it would cost around 250 dollars just for the fuel. At least 5 fuel stops, 3 stops a day to fill your belly and stops to evacuate the waste, at an average speed of 50 miles an hour(pretty high when factoring all of the stops) you will have a drive time of 60 hours. At 12 hours of driving a day that will take you 5 days and at least 4 hotel rooms.....another minimum of 200 dollars in hotel rooms and what 10-20 a day for meals and you are looking at 5 days and over 5 hundred dollars plus the very real wear and tear on your vehicle.

I just checked Jet Blue's rate from Ontario, California to New York JFK with a week and a half notice.......they will plan on getting you there in 5 hours for 159 dollars.

Greyhound, with a 7 day advance ticket purchase will get you to New York(best case scenario) in 2 days 17 hours and 15 minutes and will cost 139 dollars plus food and drink.

That is the real world, I have always been amazed at airline travel, even with all of the delays that could possibly come up I still get to where I am going in less time than it takes to watch a few hours of television. And yet all that I hear is bitching and moaning about how terrible we are treated. For the last 10 years I have flown at least 3 times a month across the country and to the UK, I don't fly anyone else but Continental and have never been treated poorly and never lost a bag, am I just very lucky?

[Mr. P]

Go there for what?

You could start with Federal Aviation Regulations which are Federal law. Try this one for starters. Most likely what the first would be but maybe not all they would charge yer dumb ass with.

Sec. 91.11 - Prohibition on interference with crewmembers.
No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated.

Same wording in FAR part 121 which applies to airlines.

Go figure.

[Abbey Marie]

You could start with Federal Aviation Regulations which are Federal law. Try this one for starters. Most likely what the first would be but maybe not all they would charge yer dumb ass with.

Sec. 91.11 - Prohibition on interference with crewmembers.
No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated.

Same wording in FAR part 121 which applies to airlines.

Go figure.

That is a very (intentionally) broadly-worded reg, and would surely cover just about any non-compliant behavior. I wonder if they would arrest a passenger who demanded medical attention, or one who was clasutrophobic and demanded to be let out of the cabin before they hyperventilated.

[Mr. P]

That is a very (intentionally) broadly-worded reg, and would surely cover just about any non-compliant behavior. I wonder if they would arrest a passenger who demanded medical attention, or one who was clasutrophobic and demanded to be let out of the cabin before they hyperventilated.
Maybe so, but that's the reg. you can't have 100 or so people making the decisions on how to operate an aircraft. And yes, they will assist medically.

Is a claustrophobic at risk of dying from being claustrophobic?
If so what the hell are they doing on an airplane in the first place?

[Abbey Marie]

Maybe so, but that's the reg. you can't have 100 or so people making the decisions on how to operate an aircraft. And yes, they will assist medically.

Is a claustrophobic at risk of dying from being claustrophobic?
If so what the hell are they doing on an airplane in the first place?

Well, people sometimes have to fly, you know.

As for claustrophobia, everyone is different, but to me, being on an airplane for a normal flight, and being trapped in one for 8 hours with no chance of getting out, are two very different things. I guess you have to have it to understand.

[Mr. P]

Well, people sometimes have to fly, you know.

As for claustrophobia, everyone is different, but to me, being on an airplane for a normal flight, and being trapped in one for 8 hours with no chance of getting out, are two very different things. I guess you have to have it to understand.
Don't fly commercial.

[Abbey Marie]

Don't fly commercial.

Sir, yes sir!

[Sitarro]

You could start with Federal Aviation Regulations which are Federal law. Try this one for starters. Most likely what the first would be but maybe not all they would charge yer dumb ass with.

Sec. 91.11 - Prohibition on interference with crewmembers.
No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated.

Same wording in FAR part 121 which applies to airlines.

Go figure.

I remember the days when smoking was allowed on airplanes, then the smokers were put into a section in the back of the plane. My oldest brother was a Captain back then and hated cigarettes. There were more than a few instances where a person in a row that was marked no-smoking lit up and caused a lot of trouble for the crew, they were promptly arrested when the plane was put on the ground. Just as when you are on a boat, the Captain is the person in charge and has all of the power, go up against him or the flight crew and you will spend time in jail.

[The ClayTaurus]

Sitarro, what do you do in the airline industry?

I'd tend to agree a strong majority of passengers are unreasonably demanding.

[-Cp]

It's a federal crime to obstruct the operation of an aircraft. Let me know how popping the slide works for you. I hear they'll let you have one phone call.

It's also an obstruction of justice for them to falsly imprison those passengers...

Speeding is s crime to, what's your point?

[jillian]

It's also an obstruction of justice for them to falsly imprison those passengers...

Speeding is s crime to, what's your point?

No one said obstruction of justice. And, once again, it isn't false imprisonment. They'd be totally justified in arresting you. For a claim of false imprisonment to lie, they'd have had to be totally unjustified and have had no basis in law to detain you. What part of the law don't you understand?

Like I said, good luck with that. Let us know how it goes.

:cheers2:

[Hagbard Celine]

Sitarro, what do you do in the airline industry?

I'd tend to agree a strong majority of passengers are unreasonably demanding.

He's a stewardess.

[Sitarro]

He's a stewardess.

Actually haggis, most of the "stewardess's " I have seen that weren't women look a lot like you and I would guess practice the same lifestyle....:gay:
It would appear that your new avatar shows you sucking on a cylindrical object in an effort to get some kind of "release", I rest my case.

[-Cp]

No one said obstruction of justice. And, once again, it isn't false imprisonment. They'd be totally justified in arresting you. For a claim of false imprisonment to lie, they'd have had to be totally unjustified and have had no basis in law to detain you. What part of the law don't you understand?

Like I said, good luck with that. Let us know how it goes.

:cheers2:

And you have yet to name the law that'd be broke .... you have got to be the biggest blowhard I've "seen" ..