Voter ID

[MtnBiker]

Writing a check for a purchase at the supermarket - need an ID.

Traveling by airplane - need and ID.

Being hired for most jobs - need and ID.

Should voting at the polls require an ID? It would help confirm that the person voting is indeed the person they are supposed to be.

Some state require voter ID to vote, is this fair?

[Kathianne]

Writing a check for a purchase at the supermarket - need an ID.

Traveling by airplane - need and ID.

Being hired for most jobs - need and ID.

Should voting at the polls require an ID? It would help confirm that the person voting is indeed the person they are supposed to be.

Some state require voter ID to vote, is this fair?

Yes, all states should require.

[typomaniac]

How do you stop from turning it into a poll tax?

[MtnBiker]

How do you stop from turning it into a poll tax?

Is there a cost for a state ID that makes it prohibitive for some people to obtain?

[typomaniac]

Is there a cost for a state ID that makes it prohibitive for some people to obtain?

It has to cost something to administer. Where does that money come from? Higher taxes?

[MtnBiker]

So, when Hilary creates universal pre-K and universal health coverage, will any sort of ID be required? Will that be a concern to you at that time?

ID's are important to people beyond voting let them purchase them. Again is there a cost to a single person for a state issued ID that is prohibitive for someone to obtain? I imagine all states can issue a legal citizen an ID card for some sort of fee.

[Kathianne]

So, when Hilary creates universal pre-K and universal health coverage, will any sort of ID be required? Will that be a concern to you at that time?

ID's are import to people beyond voting let them purchase them. Again is there a cost to a single person for a state issued ID that is prohibitive for someone to obtain? I imagine all states can issue a legal citizen an ID card for some sort of fee.

Yep, no one sites DL's as too expensive to obtain. The deal to me is that you need to present a utility bill or some sort of proof that you live where you claim to live. I'm against a national ID program, but voting card should help minimize the odds of illegal voting.

[MtnBiker]

A sampling of a few states and fees associated with IDs


Illinois Identification Card Renewal

All Illinois ID cards are issued for a period of five years, expiring on the card holder's birthday. The renewal fee is $20 for those under the age of 65, and is free for those older than 65 years of age.



http://www.dmv.org/il-illinois/id-cards.php

New York:

If you do not drive, you may choose a short-term non-driver ID card valid for 4 to 5 years, or a long-term ID card valid for 8 to 9 years. The exact period of your ID card and your fee depend on whether you select a short-term or long-term ID and the relationship between the date you apply and the expiration date (your month and day of birth). A short-term ID card will cost between $9.00 and $10.00. A long-term ID will cost between $13.00 and $14.00. These fees include a $5.00 photo document fee.

Discounted Non-Driver ID Card For Seniors and SSI Recipients

If you are 62 years old or older or are receiving Social Security Income (SSI), you are eligible for a 10-year ID card at a reduced fee of $6.50. If you are both 62 or older and you receive SSI, there is no fee. If you receive Social Security Income (SSI), in addition to documents proving your name and age, you also must prove you receive SSI. DMV will accept ANY ONE of the following documents from the Social Security Administration as proof that you receive SSI:

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c-33.htm

California:


Fees

Your fee, paid during your appointment, will be:

$22 application fee for most applicants.
Free, for those 62 years of age or older.
Free, for those who must give up a driver license due to a medical condition.
A $7 reduced-fee ID card is available for low-income residents.

It takes about 60 days to receive your new California ID card in the mail; meanwhile, hang onto the receipt. If it's been that long and you didn't get it, call (800) 777-0133 for help.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/id-cards.php


For people recieving assistance from the state are they required to have some sort of ID, they should.

[Immanuel]

An ID should be required and the State should offer free (well taxpayer funded) ID cards for those who need them.

Immie

[typomaniac]

An ID should be required and the State should offer free (well taxpayer funded) ID cards for those who need them.

Immie

Thanks, Immie. It's always refreshing to see someone with a differing viewpoint show a little common sense, instead of trying to prove that the other side is completely wrong about every single detail.

[Immanuel]

Thanks, Immie. It's always refreshing to see someone with a differing viewpoint show a little common sense, instead of trying to prove that the other side is completely wrong about every single detail.

You're welcome, but I try to be smarter than that because when I don't there is always an Abbey reminding me of my errors.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=10116&page=2


Originally posted by Abbey

Immie, the revolutionary war town of Concord you are thinking of was/is in Massachusetts. Near Lexington.


Quote:
The Battles of Lexington and Concord were the first military engagements of the American Revolutionary War.[1] They were fought on April 19, 1775, in Middlesex County, Province of Massachusetts Bay, within the towns of Lexington, Concord, Lincoln, Menotomy (present-day Arlington), and Cambridge, near Boston. The battles marked the outbreak of open armed conflict between the Kingdom of Great Britain and its thirteen colonies in the mainland of British North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...on_and_Concord

It is like posting that someone is an idiot for not being able to spell or type with a comment like this...


Hay {deliberately mis-spelled} {insert idiot's name here}, your {deliberately mis-spelled as it should be you're} a {deliberately did not use "an"} idiot for spelling they're {yes, I did that deliberately too} name wrong.

Thank God for the edit button! How many errors have I corrected before someone else read my post? :D I always laugh when I find an error in someone's post like that.

Immie

[MtnBiker]

So, there really is no reason to not require offical ID for voting? Cool.

[Trigg]

Writing a check for a purchase at the supermarket - need an ID.

Traveling by airplane - need and ID.

Being hired for most jobs - need and ID.

Should voting at the polls require an ID? It would help confirm that the person voting is indeed the person they are supposed to be.

Some state require voter ID to vote, is this fair?


Indiana requires you show your drivers license to vote, after showing your license they mark your name off the list. No extra costs, as far as I can see.

I really don't know anyone who doesn't have an ID except mentally ill patients even the elderly patients from retirement homes have a drivers license (many times marked to show they don't drive).

I just can't swallow the dem. assertion that an ID requirment is hard on poor voters. People on state assistance are showing some sort of proof of ID to get their benefits. They show an ID for everything else why not to vote?

[Immanuel]

So, there really is no reason to not require offical ID for voting? Cool.

Wait... I don't think some of the liberals have posted here except for Typo who asked the original question. I've read a lot of reasons (actually excuses) for not requiring an id generally claiming it to be a poll tax.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Writing a check for a purchase at the supermarket - need an ID.

Traveling by airplane - need and ID.

Being hired for most jobs - need and ID.

Should voting at the polls require an ID? It would help confirm that the person voting is indeed the person they are supposed to be.

Some state require voter ID to vote, is this fair? I am uncertain how having a gvt id at the voting polls stops any kind of significant voter fraud.... can you explain what it does to prevent the kind of significant voter fraud that we have had?

Now if you were to say that registering to vote required proof of citizenship, then I think this would be a place where voter fraud could be taking place in a significant manner, by many illegals or even many legal immigrant residents that are not citizens yet.

But as far as voter fraud at the polls being stymied by having a gvt id card, can't see how?

You walk in to the poll and they ask your name and your address, you tell them, and they cross off your name from the list.

An id is not going to change anything.

There are not people that come in to the polls and give my or your name and address and vote for us....then we come in and it says we voted already????? This is not a common voter fraud situation...the risk is too high for the fraudulent voter to try to vote in that manner, taking the chance that you will come in before them and vote?

Id at the polls does nothing.

What could stop a great deal of voter fraud that has occured over the years is for each voting district to update their voter rolls and purge a person from the roll when they die. When the state issues a death certificate, the voter roll needs to purge off the voting roll, the person that died.

If the dead people are left on the voter rolls as legitimate voters, then those that tend the role can make a compilation of the dead people, have fake id's made up for those going in to vote using their names....so an id wouldn't even help....imo.

The only way to stop this kind of fraud is to not leave dead people on the voting list.....not id's.

And something needs to be done when people register to vote, requiring a birth certificate to show they are American citizens....

Those are things that could make an impact on voter fraud imo.

jd

[Chessplayer]

Some state require voter ID to vote, is this fair?

Absolutely fair.

[Immanuel]

I am uncertain how having a gvt id at the voting polls stops any kind of significant voter fraud.... can you explain what it does to prevent the kind of significant voter fraud that we have had?

Now if you were to say that registering to vote required proof of citizenship, then I think this would be a place where voter fraud could be taking place in a significant manner, by many illegals or even many legal immigrant residents that are not citizens yet.

etc. etc. etc.

See Mtnbiker, once again, I have to tell you guys, "I told you so."

There is always an excuse. :D

Notice that she is "uncertain". As far as I am concerned if she and all the other liberals are "uncertain", then voter id should be required because they are not certain that the dead vote Democratic.

Who knows if there are a significant number of criminals that enter polling precincts and vote for people that they know are not going to vote? Who knows if it is only Democrats that do this? Somehow I doubt that it is. Who knows if anyone does it, but does that matter? We put cameras at traffic lights to stop people from running red lights. The police have radar detectors that they point at cars that are not speeding all the time in order to prevent speeding. The IRS has certain "red flags" that can initiate an audit in order to catch tax fraud.

We have all kinds of different devices in this country used to catch criminals and reduce crime. Why not take an effort to reduce voter fraud by requiring a voter to present a valid id before voting?

Immie

[MtnBiker]

What could stop a great deal of voter fraud that has occured over the years is for each voting district to update their voter rolls and purge a person from the roll when they die. When the state issues a death certificate, the voter roll needs to purge off the voting roll, the person that died.

If the dead people are left on the voter rolls as legitimate voters, then those that tend the role can make a compilation of the dead people, have fake id's made up for those going in to vote using their names....so an id wouldn't even help....imo.

The only way to stop this kind of fraud is to not leave dead people on the voting list.....not id's.

And something needs to be done when people register to vote, requiring a birth certificate to show they are American citizens....

Those are things that could make an impact on voter fraud imo.

jd

I like all of those ideas, the requirement of having an ID present at voting is also a good idea. It helps prevent check fraud.

[typomaniac]

Don't be too quick to dismiss JD's point.

Too often, attempts to "prevent voter fraud" are nothing more than excuses to intimidate voters whom the fraud-alarmed people consider undesirable.

[JohnDoe]

See Mtnbiker, once again, I have to tell you guys, "I told you so."

There is always an excuse. :D

Notice that she is "uncertain". As far as I am concerned if she and all the other liberals are "uncertain", then voter id should be required because they are not certain that the dead vote Democratic.

Who knows if there are a significant number of criminals that enter polling precincts and vote for people that they know are not going to vote? Who knows if it is only Democrats that do this? Somehow I doubt that it is. Who knows if anyone does it, but does that matter? We put cameras at traffic lights to stop people from running red lights. The police have radar detectors that they point at cars that are not speeding all the time in order to prevent speeding. The IRS has certain "red flags" that can initiate an audit in order to catch tax fraud.

We have all kinds of different devices in this country used to catch criminals and reduce crime. Why not take an effort to reduce voter fraud by requiring a voter to present a valid id before voting?

Immie

so immie, let's hear it from you, since you are so smart....how does an id at the poll, showing that you are the person on the voter roll stop, any voter fraud from taking place?

please enlighten me....what kind of fraud does it stop? I'm all ears.....

if it doesn't stop any kind of fraud that has been taking place, why waste tax payer's dollars, to pay for the id and why have it?

to make people THINK voting is less fraudulent while the fraud really continues? so no one looks in to the other two methods of fraud that have and do take place in significant numbers?

Or to stop the poor or elderly who are already registered and legal voters for years and decades from voting... by making them get to a driver's licence place to get an id, when it could be miles and miles and miles from where they live, or make them miss a day of work...which is money they need, to go across town to get there?

when the real problem is dead people left on the voting rolls and immigrants without citizenship registering to vote?

and what about absentee voting, how does an id stop that?

jd

[Yurt]

How do you stop from turning it into a poll tax?

it will never be a poll tax. the cost is not prohibitive. who does not have a photo ID? california has a $22 id fee. there is even a reduced fee card that costs only 7 dollars.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/fees/idCard_fees.htm#reg_id

[Yurt]

so immie, let's hear it from you, since you are so smart....how does an id at the poll, showing that you are the person on the voter roll stop, any voter fraud from taking place?

please enlighten me....what kind of fraud does it stop? I'm all ears.....

if it doesn't stop any kind of fraud that has been taking place, why waste tax payer's dollars, to pay for the id and why have it?

to make people THINK voting is less fraudulent while the fraud really continues? so no one looks in to the other two methods of fraud that have and do take place in significant numbers?

Or to stop the poor or elderly who are already registered and legal voters for years and decades from voting... by making them get to a driver's licence place to get an id, when it could be miles and miles and miles from where they live, or make them miss a day of work...which is money they need, to go across town to get there?

when the real problem is dead people left on the voting rolls and immigrants without citizenship registering to vote?

and what about absentee voting, how does an id stop that?

jd

why are you so uptight over asking for ID at the polls? do you also feel that asking for ID to tender a check is wrong? what about using a credit card, has your name on it. what about getting a job?

[jimnyc]

Or to stop the poor or elderly who are already registered and legal voters for years and decades from voting... by making them get to a driver's licence place to get an id, when it could be miles and miles and miles from where they live, or make them miss a day of work...which is money they need, to go across town to get there?

Why can't the "poor elderly" get appropriate ID like the rest of the nation? The only bitching I hear about is from illegals, and from a handful who refuse to learn the English language. It should be a requirement of all US citizens to have some sort of proper identification, and not just for polling reasons. Prove who you are, prove you are legal - get an ID.

[JohnDoe]

Why can't the "poor elderly" get appropriate ID like the rest of the nation? The only bitching I hear about is from illegals, and from a handful who refuse to learn the English language. It should be a requirement of all US citizens to have some sort of proper identification, and not just for polling reasons. Prove who you are, prove you are legal - get an ID.


as immie has mentioned and typo too, it could be considered a poll tax, unless the id's are issued for free.

and there are many in this country who do not believe the federal gvt has the power to demand a national id card...we have the right to privacy....kathianne mentioned this already in this thread....

the fraud takes place when registering to vote, not at the poll and something has to be figured out on how to stop it....legal immigrants can get driver's licences and gvt ids, but it is still illegal for them to vote unless they have gotten their citizenship, so how does an id at the poll stop the fraud? and shoot, every other illegal probably has a fraudulent driver's licence....

we either need to require a birth certificant in the registering to vote process or some sort of citizenship papers of the immigrants when registering, to stop that aspect of voter fraud and when someone dies they must be removed from the voter rolls.

a fake id like a fraudulent driver's licence can be had in this day and age, easily....there has to be a better way.

this doesn't address the seniors that do not drive and only have a SSAN card that registered to vote decades ago, or a poor citizen who does not have an id other than an SSAN card, who registered to vote years ago....who has no means to get to a gvt office to get an id, i realize this....and maybe it is sending buses in to these poorer neighborhoods that can issue some sort of id
??? i just think it needs to be thought through, thoroughly, without disenfranchising any american citizen who has the RIGHT to vote in this country, and without a pole tax to do it. or maybe these people can mail a copy of their birth certificate to the voting district that verifies their citizenship?

[JohnDoe]

why are you so uptight over asking for ID at the polls? do you also feel that asking for ID to tender a check is wrong? what about using a credit card, has your name on it. what about getting a job?


what voting fraud would it stop? tell me that first... why would having an id to prove you are the person on the voting roll stop any fraud?

i don't want the masses to be FOOLED in to thinking voter fraud doesn't take place just because someone has an id that matches their name on the voting list....

cuz it stops no fraud....the fraud takes place when registering to vote...

NO ONE HAS ANSWERED, whaT fraud having an id at the poll stops...?????

[jimnyc]

as immie has mentioned and typo too, it could be considered a poll tax, unless the id's are issued for free.

Bullshit. We all need ID for so many aspects of our life, and we have all paid for them whether they are drivers licenses, social security cards or general ID cards from the government. This has nothing to do with JUST polls, ALL Americans should have an ID in this day and age. You can't drive without one. You can't fly without one. You can't leave the country legally without one. You can't drink without one. You can't buy a firearm without one. You can't get a bank account without one. It's absolutely absurd to not have an ID in this day and age, and even more absurd to come up with excuses for those who refuse to get one. BUT, people still do have that right - but they should also be denied every last damn thing that currently requires an appropriate ID, and we should be working to require ID's for even more things. See how far they get living like outcasts because they refuse.

[JohnDoe]

it will never be a poll tax. the cost is not prohibitive. who does not have a photo ID? california has a $22 id fee. there is even a reduced fee card that costs only 7 dollars.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/fees/idCard_fees.htm#reg_idany amount of money paid to vote, even 1 dollar, is a poll tax and illegal....imo.

[Yurt]

as immie has mentioned and typo too, it could be considered a poll tax, unless the id's are issued for free.




Absolutely wrong. See my previous posts. Further, the goal of checking IDs does not amount to a poll tax. You should really learn what "poll tax" is. Are you telling me that $7 would actually stop someone from voting?

Btw, does anyone actually know if getting just a plain ID cost money? I put up CA costs. What about other states?

[JohnDoe]

Bullshit. We all need ID for so many aspects of our life, and we have all paid for them whether they are drivers licenses, social security cards or general ID cards from the government. This has nothing to do with JUST polls, ALL Americans should have an ID in this day and age. You can't drive without one. You can't fly without one. You can't leave the country legally without one. You can't drink without one. You can't buy a firearm without one. You can't get a bank account without one. It's absolutely absurd to not have an ID in this day and age, and even more absurd to come up with excuses for those who refuse to get one. BUT, people still do have that right - but they should also be denied every last damn thing that currently requires an appropriate ID, and we should be working to require ID's for even more things. See how far they get living like outcasts because they refuse.
driving and flying are priveledges, they are not mandatory, therefore it is okay to have to pay the gvt for them

[Yurt]

any amount of money paid to vote, even 1 dollar, is a poll tax and illegal....imo.

how do you get to your poll station? walk? ride? drive? bus? what if someone lived a certain distance away and had to drive or take a bus there? using your logic, that is a tax and illegal.

you are wrong about poll tax, read up on it.

[Yurt]

what voting fraud would it stop? tell me that first... why would having an id to prove you are the person on the voting roll stop any fraud?

i don't want the masses to be FOOLED in to thinking voter fraud doesn't take place just because someone has an id that matches their name on the voting list....

cuz it stops no fraud....the fraud takes place when registering to vote...

NO ONE HAS ANSWERED, whaT fraud having an id at the poll stops...?????

what if it stopped just one fraudulent incident? are you telling me that you don't care?

[jimnyc]

driving and flying are priveledges, they are not mandatory, therefore it is okay to have to pay the gvt for them

Why just pick out 2 pieces of what I wrote?

Anyone that doesn't have an appropriate ID in this day and age is an outright idiot. How can you LEGALLY survive without it? Unless of course you live in a hole and never leave it. Every American should have an ID, just to prove that they are a citizen alone. I repeat what I said earlier, only the illegals and those refusing to learn English are afraid of that option, and mostly those are the only ones without ID anyway.

[Yurt]

Why just pick out 2 pieces of what I wrote?

Anyone that doesn't have an appropriate ID in this day and age is an outright idiot. How can you LEGALLY survive without it? Unless of course you live in a hole and never leave it. Every American should have an ID, just to prove that they are a citizen alone. I repeat what I said earlier, only the illegals and those refusing to learn English are afraid of that option, and mostly those are the only ones without ID anyway.

what about new born babies? 5 month old babies? Id?

[JohnDoe]

what if it stopped just one fraudulent incident? are you telling me that you don't care?
Tell me how it would stop that one voter fraud from happening...?

Why wopuld you want our tax dollars to pay for every poor person's id so that they can have an id at the voter booth when it would not stop the fraud that is taking place, which is in the registering process?

Why would you want to WASTE our tax payer's dollar's for such a thing, if it does not stop the fraud that is taking place? Just to make you and others that have not thought through how the fraud takes place feel better?

So the real fraud continues to happen while you and others "feel better"?

NOT me, we need to stop the fraud where it begins and it is not after one already is registered to vote.

jd

[MtnBiker]

So, when people seek for assistance from the government in the form of welfare, foodstamps, healthcare should any form of ID be required?

[Yurt]

QUOTE=JohnDoe;176080]Tell me how it would stop that one voter fraud from happening...?

No, you tell me: if it did stop just one person, would that be worthwhile for you?



Why wopuld you want our tax dollars to pay for every poor person's id so that they can have an id at the voter booth when it would not stop the fraud that is taking place, which is in the registering process?

huh?


Why would you want to WASTE our tax payer's dollar's for such a thing, if it does not stop the fraud that is taking place? Just to make you and others that have not thought through how the fraud takes place feel better?

So the real fraud continues to happen while you and others "feel better"?

NOT me, we need to stop the fraud where it begins and it is not after one already is registered to vote.


Waste? Answer my question, then we will talk about waste. It is apparent that it is you that needs to feel better. You have no stance and cannot answer questions. It makes you feel better to bash other people's opinions/thoughts. Real fraud? When did I ever say that voter ID would stop all fraud? I didn't. Your "read fraud" is a red herring, go fish.

[Yurt]

So, when people seek for assistance from the government in the form of welfare, foodstamps, healthcare should any form of ID be required?


:dance:

[Dilloduck]

Should a person have an ID when they register to vote ?

[MtnBiker]

Should a person have an ID when they register to vote ?

Yes

[Yurt]

Should a person have an ID when they register to vote ?

why not?

[JohnDoe]

Why just pick out 2 pieces of what I wrote?

Anyone that doesn't have an appropriate ID in this day and age is an outright idiot. How can you LEGALLY survive without it? Unless of course you live in a hole and never leave it. Every American should have an ID, just to prove that they are a citizen alone. I repeat what I said earlier, only the illegals and those refusing to learn English are afraid of that option, and mostly those are the only ones without ID anyway.
I don't know what to tell ya Jim....there are people without gvt id's that manage to survive in our society.... I don't know how they do it other than living on cash....but they do....this has been proven... and there are bigger groups of citizens that live on indian reservations that do not have id's, I remember reading about that....

Most anyone can get a fake id, easily, let alone a valid one, I understand this quite well.... I just don't see how a driver's licence has anything to do with cutting out voter fraud at the voting booth....

it should not be necessary to have a gvt id to live here in the land of the free, especially if you are a citizen that was born here.... though all of us have to have a ssan card now, which most americans threw a fit over when they started that....

I don't think it is so much of a problem with the younger people living in society today, but with the older people living in America who never learned to drive.... my motherinlaw, (God rest her soul) did not learn how to drive until she was in her 60's, so she had no gvt id until then....there are lost of people out there just like her....

jd

[Dilloduck]

why not?

Im just trying to figure out why asking a citizen to have an ID when they conduct government business is a waste of money.

[Yurt]

I don't know what to tell ya Jim....there are people without gvt id's that manage to survive in our society.... I don't know how they do it other than living on cash....but they do....this has been proven... and there are bigger groups of citizens that live on indian reservations that do not have id's, I remember reading about that....

Most anyone can get a fake id, easily, let alone a valid one, I understand this quite well.... I just don't see how a driver's licence has anything to do with cutting out voter fraud at the voting booth....

it should not be necessary to have a gvt id to live here in the land of the free, especially if you are a citizen that was born here.... though all of us have to have a ssan card now, which most americans threw a fit over when they started that....

I don't think it is so much of a problem with the younger people living in society today, but with the older people living in America who never learned to drive.... my motherinlaw, (God rest her soul) did not learn how to drive until she was in her 60's, so she had no gvt id until then....there are lost of people out there just like her....

jd

your problem is plain, you don't understand facts. nobody said "drivers" license. ID :poke:

[Yurt]

Im just trying to figure out why asking a citizen to have an ID when they conduct government business is a waste of money.

good point. need one to marry. hell, need more than an ID to marry, and marriage is a fundamental right just like voting. won't here JD crying over that though.

[jimnyc]

what about new born babies? 5 month old babies? Id?

Children born here will be issued a US birth certificate, which in turn can be used to get other forms of ID when they are of age.

[jimnyc]

I don't know what to tell ya Jim....there are people without gvt id's that manage to survive in our society.... I don't know how they do it other than living on cash....but they do....this has been proven...

Yes, they are called "illegal aliens" and "frauds" generally.

[JohnDoe]

:dance:
usually an ssan card is required now....but that is not considered a valid id with a picture....

I know I had to have my birth cirtificate when I got my driver's license, but EACH STATE is different and some states don't even require that from what I have read....?

I think that we need to have some proof of citizenship when we register to vote or within a month of registering to vote....

I still think that voter drives should go on, upon affidavit of citizenship, should be allowed to register people to vote, but within a month these new people should have to send to the voter registration office in a prepaid envelope by them, a copy of their birth certificate, in order to validate their citizenship or something like this....

I think many states actually allow illegals to drive so a driver's licence is not really good enough imo....

What I do know is that a driver's licence at the polls is NOT going to stop the fraud from happening, therefore a waste of time and money and a way to fool us all in to thinking the sanctity of one man one vote, for citizens, is taking place, when it is NOT....

jd

[jimnyc]

What I do know is that a driver's licence at the polls is NOT going to stop the fraud from happening

Who is saying it must be a "drivers license"?

[Yurt]

usually an ssan card is required now....but that is not considered a valid id with a picture....

I know I had to have my birth cirtificate when I got my driver's license, but EACH STATE is different and some states don't even require that from what I have read....?

I think that we need to have some proof of citizenship when we register to vote or within a month of registering to vote....

I still think that voter drives should go on, upon affidavit of citizenship, should be allowed to register people to vote, but within a month these new people should have to send to the voter registration office in a prepaid envelope by them, a copy of their birth certificate, in order to validate their citizenship or something like this....

I think many states actually allow illegals to drive so a driver's licence is not really good enough imo....

What I do know is that a driver's licence at the polls is NOT going to stop the fraud from happening, therefore a waste of time and money and a way to fool us all in to thinking the sanctity of one man one vote, for citizens, is taking place, when it is NOT....

jd


Why are you so blatently ignorant?

[Dilloduck]

usually an ssan card is required now....but that is not considered a valid id with a picture....

I know I had to have my birth cirtificate when I got my driver's license, but EACH STATE is different and some states don't even require that from what I have read....?

I think that we need to have some proof of citizenship when we register to vote or within a month of registering to vote....

I still think that voter drives should go on, upon affidavit of citizenship, should be allowed to register people to vote, but within a month these new people should have to send to the voter registration office in a prepaid envelope by them, a copy of their birth certificate, in order to validate their citizenship or something like this....

I think many states actually allow illegals to drive so a driver's licence is not really good enough imo....

What I do know is that a driver's licence at the polls is NOT going to stop the fraud from happening, therefore a waste of time and money and a way to fool us all in to thinking the sanctity of one man one vote, for citizens, is taking place, when it is NOT....

jd

Cops don't stop all crime either--Why have em ?

[Yurt]

Cops don't stop all crime either--Why have em ?

so they can check your "driver's licence" [sic]

[MtnBiker]

Requiring no ID at the voting both would make voter fraud much easier, requiring ID at the voting both will not eliminate voter fraud, however it would make it harder. In order to obtain a frauduent ID would be a hassel and a cost, why would a person do this in order to vote?

[Yurt]

Requiring no ID at the voting both would make voter fraud much easier, requiring ID at the voting both will not eliminate voter fraud, however it would make it harder. In order to obtain a frauduent ID would be a hassel and a cost, why would a person do this in order to vote?

the reasons are many. though I see your point concerning the money whiners.

[Trigg]

Or to stop the poor or elderly who are already registered and legal voters for years and decades from voting... by making them get to a driver's licence place to get an id, when it could be miles and miles and miles from where they live, or make them miss a day of work...which is money they need, to go across town to get there?

when the real problem is dead people left on the voting rolls and immigrants without citizenship registering to vote?

I do agree that votor rolls need to be checked and purged of dead people and people who have registered to vote either in another state or another county.

However this starts a whole other argument about people proving who they are and our resident lib (liesmatter) arguing that the poor are again being burdened into proving who they are.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=6627&highlight=louisiana+voter+purge

IMO there does need to be a national ID card issued only to US citizens. This process could be started after the next presidential election. Offered for a minimal fee (even the poor can afford $5), or perhaps issued when a poor person picks up their benefit check.

[typomaniac]

IMO there does need to be a national ID card issued only to US citizens. This process could be started after the next presidential election. Offered for a minimal fee (even the poor can afford $5), or perhaps issued when a poor person picks up their benefit check.
Why stop there? We could use a barcode tattoo, or maybe a chip implant. :eek:

[Yurt]

Why stop there? We could use a barcode tattoo, or maybe a chip implant. :eek:

drivers lycence :poke:

[Dilloduck]

Why stop there? We could use a barcode tattoo, or maybe a chip implant. :eek:

Or we could let anyone vote as often as they like------

[typomaniac]

drivers lycence :poke:

You have a real "licentious" obsession, don't you? :laugh2:

[typomaniac]

Or we could let anyone vote as often as they like------

I thought "Vote early, vote often" was one of the constitutional amendments. :laugh2:

[Dilloduck]

I thought "Vote early, vote often" was one of the constitutional amendments. :laugh2:

Oh ya--I could tell you were taking this subject very seriously !! :laugh2:

[Trigg]

Why stop there? We could use a barcode tattoo, or maybe a chip implant. :eek:

Why are you people against any type proof for who you are?

People are already issued a SS# as soon as they're born.

People already get a license so they can drive.

People already get a birth certificate as soon as they are born.

Why is an official gov. provided photo ID any different??????????????? If they're able to make it reasonably tamper proof it may also cut down on identity theft.


I assume you also already have these things, the gov. already knows who you are. :tinfoil:

[JohnDoe]

Requiring no ID at the voting both would make voter fraud much easier, requiring ID at the voting both will not eliminate voter fraud, however it would make it harder. In order to obtain a frauduent ID would be a hassel and a cost, why would a person do this in order to vote?
I heard recently that 16 states, basically allow illegal's to get a licence....how would a driver's licence at the poll stop illegals from voting mtn? HOW?

I think that we need to require some sort of proof of citizenship at the time of REGISTERING to vote, or within a month of the drive that registered you....

THIS and only this will catch the illegals from voting, a driver's licence at the polls will not, because they are already registered and their name is already on the list to vote.....

even my state of maine, if older than 22 does not require a birth certificate as one of your id's in order to get a driver's licence....

i honestly believe we are wasting our time requiring an id at the polls from a person that is already registered to vote is not going to stop the fraud that is occuring....because it is occurring at the time of registration....it is as simple as that....

And the voter fraud that occurs with people taking dead people's identity is a major crime that is worked from within the system, that can only be stopped if the dead person is removed from the voting register once a death certificate is issued for them.

and as I have said before, having an id at the polls to prove you are who has registered is too late....

the fraud took place when registering, the id at the polls does nothing to stop that fraud....

it only makes the rest of us law abiding CITIZENS, who have a right to vote, think that things are safe and fraud isn't happening if we show an id, and that is utterly ridiculous because an id, is a dime a dozen...cheap to come by and does not stop any kind of fraud from happening but only makes us THINK IT DOES, WHEN IT DOESN'T, especially when we have millions of illegals with driver's licences and even legal immigrants have driver's licences or gvt id's, but according to the constitution ONLY usa CITIZENS have the right to vote....

it's a gimmick, a guise to make us "feel" better and does not in any way address the actual voter fraud that is taking place....a waste of time and money....

jd

[MtnBiker]

It is to simply add a layer of security to ask for ID to vote. I would hate to go to the polls to vote and be told I could not because someone has already used my name.

I'm not arguing that it would eliminate fraud, but it would deter it. What is wrong with that?

[Immanuel]

so immie, let's hear it from you, since you are so smart....how does an id at the poll, showing that you are the person on the voter roll stop, any voter fraud from taking place?

please enlighten me....what kind of fraud does it stop? I'm all ears.....

No, knowing you I would have to say you are all mouth.

Simple point, if a picture id is required then neither party can find out who has not appeared to vote or who is deceased yet still on the roles and send in plants to vote in their place. I can't go in and easily get an ID that says that I am John Doe and vote in his place because we know that he died three years ago. It is not so easy to get a picture id. Now you Democrats like to claim that dead people don't vote, but seems to me like it has happened before in Chicago at least. With a picture id that could be minimized quite easily. But, something tells me liberals like you don't want to stop this kind of fraud. Of course, nothing can stop a criminal from trying, but any available effort to stop it should be used.

The only kind of fraud you liberals are concerned about is Republican fraud i.e. your claims that the programs in the voting machines are skewed, which as a matter of fact, I can believe could happen and every method available to fight such fraud should be used. I highly doubt you would even worry about such fraud if Al Gore had won and the election had been questionable in 2000. Then you would have been praising the machines.

As for your other points, they are all valid, but what I want to know is why you are so opposed to stopping any kind of fraud. Is it simply because only Democrats used deceased individuals votes?

Although, your crap about it being difficult for the poor to get an id is nothing short of BS. The only people that could not get an ID are shut ins that are fat and lazy and never leave the house. Once again, you use frigging excuses to justify your obstructionism.

Immie

[Immanuel]

driving and flying are priveledges, they are not mandatory, therefore it is okay to have to pay the gvt for them

Um, voting is a privilege as well and is not mandatory either.

I don't believe there should be a poll tax either. Which is why I would insist on a way for people without other legal forms of identification who are in need of an id should be provided one.

Also, I don't believe that National ID's are illegal. Although, I for one am against the idea, but who really cares what I think? We will be required to carry them in our lifetimes, if not before the current Administration leaves office, I am pretty sure of that. God help us all!


Originally posted by Yurt

Waste? Answer my question, then we will talk about waste. It is apparent that it is you that needs to feel better. You have no stance and cannot answer questions. It makes you feel better to bash other people's opinions/thoughts. Real fraud? When did I ever say that voter ID would stop all fraud? I didn't. Your "read fraud" is a red herring, go fish.

Damn! You nailed that one! That is and has always been JD's MO.


Requiring no ID at the voting both would make voter fraud much easier, requiring ID at the voting both will not eliminate voter fraud, however it would make it harder. In order to obtain a frauduent ID would be a hassel and a cost, why would a person do this in order to vote?

Not to mention the possibility that if I went to Steve to get a fake id, Steve might just be an undercover cop and I may be the next victim of a sting operation. This increases the cost and risk of obtaining such an id and hopefully cuts down on the attempts.


Immie

[Yurt]

I thought "Vote early, vote often" was one of the constitutional amendments. :laugh2:

we know that you think this, why else are your "thoughts" not asked for

[typomaniac]

Um, voting is a privilege as well and is not mandatory either.
No, voting isn't mandatory, but what possesses you to think it's a "privilege" all of a sudden?

[Yurt]

No, voting isn't mandatory, but what possesses you to think it's a "privilege" all of a sudden?

:alcoholic:

you have no idea what you are saying

[Immanuel]

I thought "Vote early, vote often" was one of the constitutional amendments. :laugh2:

It was a Democrat proposed amendment that was shot down by a very narrow margin :laugh2: But, be careful, they are trying their best to resurrect it.



No, voting isn't mandatory, but what possesses you to think it's a "privilege" all of a sudden?

Well, what else would you call it? Even our rights are privileges that can be removed by our government at a moment's notice. Heck! even the privilege of life can be snuffed out at the whim of a woman or by the government.

I have no other word besides privilege that I can think of to call it at the moment and I am glad I live in the U.S. of A. where I still have that privilege.

Immie

[typomaniac]

Well, what else would you call it? Even our rights are privileges that can be removed by our government at a moment's notice. Heck! even the privilege of life can be snuffed out at the whim of a woman or by the government.

I want to meet this woman. She'd make an awesome assistant. :dev:

[Immanuel]

I want to meet this woman. She'd make an awesome assistant. :dev:

No, you wouldn't. Piss her off and... no more Typo. :laugh2:

Immie

[Missileman]

I am uncertain how having a gvt id at the voting polls stops any kind of significant voter fraud.... can you explain what it does to prevent the kind of significant voter fraud that we have had?

Now if you were to say that registering to vote required proof of citizenship, then I think this would be a place where voter fraud could be taking place in a significant manner, by many illegals or even many legal immigrant residents that are not citizens yet.

But as far as voter fraud at the polls being stymied by having a gvt id card, can't see how?

You walk in to the poll and they ask your name and your address, you tell them, and they cross off your name from the list.

An id is not going to change anything.

There are not people that come in to the polls and give my or your name and address and vote for us....then we come in and it says we voted already????? This is not a common voter fraud situation...the risk is too high for the fraudulent voter to try to vote in that manner, taking the chance that you will come in before them and vote?

Id at the polls does nothing.

What could stop a great deal of voter fraud that has occured over the years is for each voting district to update their voter rolls and purge a person from the roll when they die. When the state issues a death certificate, the voter roll needs to purge off the voting roll, the person that died.

If the dead people are left on the voter rolls as legitimate voters, then those that tend the role can make a compilation of the dead people, have fake id's made up for those going in to vote using their names....so an id wouldn't even help....imo.

The only way to stop this kind of fraud is to not leave dead people on the voting list.....not id's.

And something needs to be done when people register to vote, requiring a birth certificate to show they are American citizens....

Those are things that could make an impact on voter fraud imo.

jd

Your friend, Joe Schmo, is on vacation or in the hospital. After going to your precinct and casting your vote, what's to stop you from going to his and saying "Hi, I'm Joe Schmo"?

[82Marine89]

Writing a check for a purchase at the supermarket - need an ID.

Traveling by airplane - need and ID.

Being hired for most jobs - need and ID.

Should voting at the polls require an ID? It would help confirm that the person voting is indeed the person they are supposed to be.

Some state require voter ID to vote, is this fair?

I would like to see it, but I feel this needs to be decided by the individual states, the federal government should not have a say in this.

[typomaniac]

I would like to see it, but I feel this needs to be decided by the individual states, the federal government should not have a say in this.

I have always been against the states deciding on 50 different ways to handle a presidential ballot. There need to be two separate ballots in presidential years: one federal, and one state.

[Missileman]

I would like to see it, but I feel this needs to be decided by the individual states, the federal government should not have a say in this.

If it's a federal election they should.

[82Marine89]

I have always been against the states deciding on 50 different ways to handle a presidential ballot. There need to be two separate ballots in presidential years: one federal, and one state.


If it's a federal election they should.

Don't the states vote for individual electors which represent the state in a federal election? Shouldn't the states determine the voting regulations for themselves?

[typomaniac]

Don't the states vote for individual electors which represent the state in a federal election? Shouldn't the states determine the voting regulations for themselves?

You don't want to get me started on the motherf'ing EC.

[82Marine89]

You don't want to get me started on the motherf'ing EC.

Go for it.

[JohnDoe]

Your friend, Joe Schmo, is on vacation or in the hospital. After going to your precinct and casting your vote, what's to stop you from going to his and saying "Hi, I'm Joe Schmo"?

joe schmoe voted via absentee ballot because he knew he was going on vacation or knew he couldn't get to the poll because he was sick! :D

piddley poo, your stopping piddley poo when it comes to voter fraud, while the big fraud goes on under your nose or under the radar....

and our politicians are pulling a big one over on all of us pretending an id at the polls is going to do something and making us think it is going to stop the major fraud that takes place... while people are registering to vote that should not be,

or while they pull the list of dead people still left on the voter rolls and get ids for the ones that will use their names or by sending in absentee ballots for all those dead people that have not been removed from the valid voter registration list.

i can live with id's at the poll since you all seem to think it is important, but not without making sure something is done that removes dead people from the voter's list and something is done to stop illegal and legal immigrants from voting before they are citizens, and not without making sure there is no cost associated with the id, so there is no poll tax issue and lastly, not before you can prove that legitimate american citizen's vote is not disenfranchised because of it.... :D

jd

[typomaniac]

Aside from the facts that it's completely antiquated and that it skews the results to a minority, it's ridiculous to apply it to only one elected office. Either use it everywhere, or don't use it at all.

[82Marine89]

Aside from the facts that it's completely antiquated and that it skews the results to a minority, it's ridiculous to apply it to only one elected office. Either use it everywhere, or don't use it at all.

The POTUS is supposed to represent the country, the Senators represent the states and the House of Representatives represent the people. Remember, we live in a republic, not a democracy. That is why all the states all have two senators. The number of representatives is then determined by population. This is why we do that census thingey every 10 years. You don't include the senators in this math and say the numbers don't match. It is equal representation under our Constitution. Ending the electoral college would reduce the representation of smaller states. At that time, what would be their incentive to stay in the Union? Wouldn't they have more power and a stronger voice as an individual country or as a group of smaller states forming their own country?

[Missileman]

joe schmoe voted via absentee ballot because he knew he was going on vacation or knew he couldn't get to the poll because he was sick! :D

piddley poo, your stopping piddley poo when it comes to voter fraud, while the big fraud goes on under your nose or under the radar....

and our politicians are pulling a big one over on all of us pretending an id at the polls is going to do something and making us think it is going to stop the major fraud that takes place when people are registering to vote that should not be,

or while they pull the list of dead people still left on the voter rolls and get ids for the ones that will use their names or by sending in absentee ballots for all those dead people that have not been removed from the valid voter registration list.

i can live with id's at the poll since you all seem to think it is important, but not without making sure something is done that removes dead people from the voter's list and something is done to stop illegal and legal immigrants from voting before they are citizens, and not without making sure there is no cost associated with the id, so there is no poll tax issue and lastly, not before you can prove that legitimate american citizen's vote is not disenfranchised because of it.... :D

jd

The piddly poos as you call them add up if enough people engage in it. Effort should be made to eliminate all types of voter fraud.

With all of the everyday situations that require ID, I find it difficult to believe that there are people out there who are wanting to vote who don't have an ID.

[typomaniac]

The POTUS is supposed to represent the country, the Senators represent the states and the House of Representatives represent the people. Remember, we live in a republic, not a democracy. That is why all the states all have two senators. The number of representatives is then determined by population. This is why we do that census thingey every 10 years. You don't include the senators in this math and say the numbers don't match. It is equal representation under our Constitution. Ending the electoral college would reduce the representation of smaller states. At that time, what would be their incentive to stay in the Union? Wouldn't they have more power and a stronger voice as an individual country or as a group of smaller states forming their own country?

Which is it: does the POTUS represent the country, or the smaller states?

[82Marine89]

Which is it: does the POTUS represent the country, or the smaller states?

Try brushing up on reading comprehension. The POTUS represents the country. Senators represent the state legislatures, and congressmen represent the people. The EC gives smaller states an equal voice when it comes to representation at the federal level.

[JohnDoe]

The piddly poos as you call them add up if enough people engage in it. Effort should be made to eliminate all types of voter fraud.

With all of the everyday situations that require ID, I find it difficult to believe that there are people out there who are wanting to vote who don't have an ID.i gave an example already...my mother in law did not get a picture id until she got her driver's licence in her 60's, american indians on reservations, citizens that are poor and do not drive, the elderly that don't and never have driven a car.... maybe because you are young and are closer to the age of getting carded to drink than the elderly are, is where the problem comes in....but many, many old folk that have never driven, do not have a valid gvt photo id to use, and they haven't needed one to live in the land of the (supposed) free....

shoot, as i have mentioned, a drivers licence can be gotten by illegals and legal immigrants, in 16 states, and a driver's licence should not be the photo id to be used if you want to stop voter fraud!!! so we all need to get new id's i guess?

and btw, my first driver's licence had no picture on it....it wasn't just my mother in law's generation that had no gvt picture id's!!!


and, can you show ONE, just one documented case of your joe schmoe senario, or someone using a neighbor's name that was on vacation or sick's name to vote or someone voting in another person's name preventing the legit person from voting cuz someone already had used their name to vote...

just one documented case of that kind of fraud that was reported....?


why waste so much energy and time on this while the big fraud is being overlooked and not even given a nanosecond of thought?

jd

[typomaniac]

Try brushing up on reading comprehension. The POTUS represents the country. Senators represent the state legislatures, and congressmen represent the people. The EC gives smaller states an equal voice when it comes to representation at the federal level.

Try making a consistent argument. The POTUS can't represent the country effectively without representing the people. The EC subverts the latter.

[jimnyc]

i gave an example already...my mother in law did not get a picture id until she got her driver's licence in her 60's, american indians on reservations, citizens that are poor and do not drive, the elderly that don't and never have driven a car.... maybe because you are young and are closer to the age of getting carded to drink than the elderly are, is where the problem comes in....but many, many old folk that have never driven, do not have a valid gvt photo id to use, and they haven't needed one to live in the land of the (supposed) free....

shoot, as i have mentioned, a drivers licence can be gotten by illegals and legal immigrants, in 16 states, and a driver's licence should not be the photo id to be used if you want to stop voter fraud!!! so we all need to get new id's i guess?

and btw, my first driver's licence had no picture on it....it wasn't just my mother in law's generation that had no gvt picture id's!!!


and, can you show ONE, just one documented case of your joe schmoe senario, or someone using a neighbor's name that was on vacation or sick's name to vote or someone voting in another person's name preventing the legit person from voting cuz someone already had used their name to vote...

just one documented case of that kind of fraud that was reported....?


why waste so much energy and time on this while the big fraud is being overlooked and not even given a nanosecond of thought?

jd

You've been asked this a few times and apparently keep ignoring it. WHY do you insist on referring to drivers licenses when we are saying people should have appropriate ID? Because then you can throw out the card that they can be faked or that some states offer licenses to illegals? We are talking about people needing appropriate ID, and ID that only a legal citizen of the US can get.

[82Marine89]

Try making a consistent argument. The POTUS can't represent the country effectively without representing the people. The EC subverts the latter.

Instead of one liners, how about a full explanation. These party line blurbs of yours are getting boring.

[JohnDoe]

You've been asked this a few times and apparently keep ignoring it. WHY do you insist on referring to drivers licenses when we are saying people should have appropriate ID? Because then you can throw out the card that they can be faked or that some states offer licenses to illegals? We are talking about people needing appropriate ID, and ID that only a legal citizen of the US can get.
I am against a national id card, kinda goes with the 666 thing, all of us being issued a "number" in order to buy or sell, as the Bible forsaw, and whoever took it, supports the anti-Christ.....

silly to you and maybe to many, but this is how I see it....

in addition to not thinking the gvt should obtain such a thing from all of us becasue they could not protect our identity and information about us safely.

shoot, their records are stolen all the time.... disabled vets, (including my husband's info) just got all their info stolen and have been warned to look for identity fraud...

I also don't think the gvt has the right to follow us citizens every move, I believe that we live in the land of the free and the gvt has no business to track citizens.....nor does it have the ability to keep our information private.

and in addition to all of this it would be a logistical nightmare to get 300 million americans issued a new id card....mahem, madness....imho

jd

[jimnyc]

I am against a national id card, kinda goes with the 666 thing, all of us being issued a "number" in order to buy or sell, as the Bible forsaw, and whoever took it, supports the anti-Christ.....

silly to you and maybe to many, but this is how I see it....

in addition to not thinking the gvt should obtain such a thing from all of us becasue they could not protect our identity and information about us safely.

shoot, their records are stolen all the time.... disabled vets, (including my husband's info) just got all their info stolen and have been warned to look for identity fraud...

I also don't think the gvt has the right to follow us citizens every move, I believe that we live in the land of the free and the gvt has no business to track citizens.....nor does it have the ability to keep our information private.

and in addition to all of this it would be a logistical nightmare to get 300 million americans issued a new id card....mahem, madness....imho

jd

Really? Do you have a birth certificate or a SS card?

[JohnDoe]

Really? Do you have a birth certificate or a SS card?have both

a birth certificate is not a national id card...

The SSAN number was revolted against by millions in the usa when it happened because they did see it as the slippery slope leading in to a national id card by our government that could lead to the 666 thing....

The ssan card and number is not a valid national id card or that is all we would have to use to vote....

what about the other issues that I had brought up in the above post Jim?

jd

[retiredman]

Is there a cost for a state ID that makes it prohibitive for some people to obtain?

doesn't matter if it is "prohibitive" or not.... if there is any cost, it is a de facto poll tax. I have no problem with state issued IDs for voting that are free of charge to the voter.

[82Marine89]

doesn't matter if it is "prohibitive" or not.... if there is any cost, it is a de facto poll tax.

So what would you recommend to stop or at a minimum deter voter fraud?

[MtnBiker]

doesn't matter if it is "prohibitive" or not.... if there is any cost, it is a de facto poll tax.

If that was the only use for the ID, you will have a very hard time convincing anybody that someone would procure an ID just to vote.

[typomaniac]

Instead of one liners, how about a full explanation. These party line blurbs of yours are getting boring.

And yours aren't? The difference between you and me is that I'm gracious enough to put up with them. You just want an excuse to reach for a firearm.

[jimnyc]

have both

a birth certificate is not a national id card...

The SSAN number was revolted against by millions in the usa when it happened because they did see it as the slippery slope leading in to a national id card by our government that could lead to the 666 thing....

The ssan card and number is not a valid national id card or that is all we would have to use to vote....

what about the other issues that I had brought up in the above post Jim?

jd

I didn't say that these were national ID cards, but they are examples of ID's that are controlled by our government, and they are mostly successful, and most legal citizens attain them. They should probably require these for a lot of things and that would shoot down a ton of illegals right there.

As for the rest of your post... Being against a national ID - just what do you think is being done by issuing birth certificates and SS numbers?

And if the government can't be trusted to protect our identities, then why are we already trusting them with SS #'s, drivers licenses, IRS? I certainly trust them with my information more than a private organization. Most fraud occurs on the credit level, which is not run by our government.

Having appropriate ID is not allowing the government to "track your every move". It's simply a way to prove who you are when necessary. It's no different than birth certificates, SS cards and drivers license - but it should be done properly from the get go to eliminate illegals.

[MtnBiker]

I have no problem with state issued IDs for voting that are free of charge to the voter.

Nothing is free. Actually I would agree, if a elderly person, low income person needed an ID at little or no cost thats fine.

[JohnDoe]

Really? Do you have a birth certificate or a SS card?What kind of major fraud do you think a national photo id will stop at the polls btw?

Shouldn't it be stopped before the illegals get registered to voteand on the valid voter rolls?

or shouldn't the dead people be removed from the voter roll when they die?

jd

[82Marine89]

And yours aren't? The difference between you and me is that I'm gracious enough to put up with them. You just want an excuse to reach for a firearm.

Back away from the pot pipe and return when you can stay on topic.

[jimnyc]

What kind of major fraud do you think a national photo id will stop at the polls btw?

Shouldn't it be stopped before the illegals get registered to voteand on the valid voter rolls?

or shouldn't the dead people be removed from the voter roll when they die?

jd

Change the subject again when the going gets rough?

Having appropriate ID's will eliminate illegals from voting for starters, so long as the process is done appropriately. It will also eliminate "dead" people from voting. They can't very well get a new ID if they're dead already. This should all be done regardless of the voting problem, to ensure all Americans have proper ID and eliminate the frauds and illegals - and this will carry over to the voting booth. It may not eliminate every last bit, but anything it does eliminate is good. And the more illegals we get rid of the better, and the more fraudsters that get eliminate the better.

[MtnBiker]

Has anyone here been asked for ID when they write a check to a store? Why do merchants do that?

[JohnDoe]

Has anyone here been asked for ID when they write a check to a store? Why do merchants do that?

yep. But they are not the govt are they, each merchant fends for themselves and have their own checking policy don't they?

And they do not have the capability to haul you away or make up charges against you or arrest you for something that could be a hack job on a universal system of information that they have on you, do they?

and you choose to have your checking account instead of dealing in cash, it is not mandatory is it?

jd

[82Marine89]

Has anyone here been asked for ID when they write a check to a store? Why do merchants do that?

While I do agree that we should reform voter registration at the state level, I have a hard time equating the rights of a private business protecting its interests.

[Dilloduck]

While I do agree that we should reform voter registration at the state level, I have a hard time equating the rights of a private business protecting its interests.

Not me---it's about time the government pay more attention to the interests of those who elect them.

[Immanuel]

I am against a national id card, kinda goes with the 666 thing, all of us being issued a "number" in order to buy or sell, as the Bible forsaw, and whoever took it, supports the anti-Christ.....

silly to you and maybe to many, but this is how I see it....

in addition to not thinking the gvt should obtain such a thing from all of us becasue they could not protect our identity and information about us safely.



I completely agree with JD in this post. I, too, am opposed to a "national" id card. I believe a picture id should be required in order to vote and just like the I-9 forms that anyone who has changed jobs in the last 15-20 years or so has come to know there are several different types of ids that can be accepted. I am of the opinion that if a person does not have one of these types of id's and wants to vote than a picture id should be made available to them even at no cost as there are not that many adults that roam this country without id.

Look if they are not willing to get a picture id because they fear the government, they are not likely to register to vote either. I, myself, am suspect of anyone who refuses to carry id. What are they trying to hide?



Having appropriate ID is not allowing the government to "track your every move". It's simply a way to prove who you are when necessary. It's no different than birth certificates, SS cards and drivers license - but it should be done properly from the get go to eliminate illegals.

I disagree with you here. The government is tracking us in as many ways as they can. Yes, id's are to prove who you are when necessary as in when preparing to cast a vote, but an id can be used to track you also as in your driving record in the public realm or recording your purchases (for "marketing" purposes) in the private realm. With a National Id card and today's technology, this can only become easier for them to do. What is the next step? Requiring you to use that National ID to purchase basic necessities?


What kind of major fraud do you think a national photo id will stop at the polls btw?

Shouldn't it be stopped before the illegals get registered to voteand on the valid voter rolls?

or shouldn't the dead people be removed from the voter roll when they die?

jd

These questions have been asked several times by you on this thread and answered multilple times by several different people on this very thread. You are simply being the ass that you always are by ignoring the answers you don't like and never answering questions posed to you.

Immie

[82Marine89]

Not me---it's about time the government pay more attention to the interests of those who elect them.

I agree with that, but I feel that the rights of a privately owned business and what they require for identification can not be compared to that of the government. Besides, it is not up to the government to tell us what they expect, it is up to us, the people, to tell them what we expect from them. Problem is, most folks have either forgotten or never learned how that works.

[typomaniac]

Back away from the pot pipe and return when you can stay on topic.

I'm not the one who got off it in the first place.

By the way, what good does it do for the people to tell the government what they expect when the government, according to you, isn't even a democracy? Just some food for thought.

[82Marine89]

I'm not the one who got off it in the first place.

By the way, what good does it do for the people to tell the government what they expect when the government, according to you, isn't even a democracy? Just some food for thought.

It's not a democracy. It's a democratic republic. 50 individual states with individual voices, not 300 million people voting mob rule. Go check your history books if you think I'm wrong.

[typomaniac]

It's not a democracy. It's a democratic republic. 50 individual states with individual voices, not 300 million people voting mob rule. Go check your history books if you think I'm wrong.

Still doesn't answer the question, mister reading comprehension. :poke:

[MtnBiker]

While I do agree that we should reform voter registration at the state level, I have a hard time equating the rights of a private business protecting its interests.

Just an example of how showing an ID is a process of confirming a persons identity. Merchants do it for a reason, it works.

[82Marine89]

Still doesn't answer the question, mister reading comprehension. :poke:

So me telling my elected representatives how I feel isn't how our democratic republic works? That's not me telling the government? If 50 people from 50 different states tell their elected representatives how to do something that isn't a democratic republic in action? :slap:

[82Marine89]

Just an example of how showing an ID is a process of confirming a persons identity. Merchants do it for a reason, it works.

Let me reiterate that I agree with showing some form of state issued identification to vote, but we are the ones that are supposed to tell our states/government how to operate, not the other way around. Businesses dictate to their customers how it works. Government should not do the same.

[Trigg]

I completely agree with JD in this post. I, too, am opposed to a "national" id card. I believe a picture id should be required in order to vote and just like the I-9 forms that anyone who has changed jobs in the last 15-20 years or so has come to know there are several different types of ids that can be accepted. I am of the opinion that if a person does not have one of these types of id's and wants to vote than a picture id should be made available to them even at no cost as there are not that many adults that roam this country without id.

Look if they are not willing to get a picture id because they fear the government, they are not likely to register to vote either.

Maybe it's just me but you seem to make no sense with this post.

1. your opposed to a national ID card

2. You think a picture ID should be required to vote

3. Your suspicious of anyone who refuses to carry ID

Ok, now it has been pointed out by johndoe that many states issue a drivers license to illegals and non-citizens. The only other picture ID I know of are passports (expensive at $50 a person) and one credit card (that I know of).

So, if you are against a national ID card, but want a picture ID at the voting booth, what is your solution.

A picture ID would take care of the dead people voting problem IMO since the pic. wouldn't match the person voting. I'm sure the gov. can make them reasonably tamper proof as they have done with the many state drivers licenses.

[truthmatters]

http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/

Voter IDs are good for one thing only and that is disenfranchising poor voters.

[Trigg]

http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/

Voter IDs are good for one thing only and that is disenfranchising poor voters.

Many already stated they should be free to poor people or a minimal fee, say $5. Such a low fee is not prohibitive to the poor.

[retiredman]

Many already stated they should be free to poor people or a minimal fee, say $5. Such a low fee is not prohibitive to the poor.


again, a poll tax does not have to be "prohibitive" to be a poll tax, and, therefore, unconstitutional. Free is fine.

[truthmatters]

Many already stated they should be free to poor people or a minimal fee, say $5. Such a low fee is not prohibitive to the poor.

You can pretend all you want that it is not a burden but others much more versed in these matters have already found it to be the facts.

Why is it the Rs want to spend a shit load of Tax dollars on a non exsistant problem?

[retiredman]

Nothing is free. Actually I would agree, if a elderly person, low income person needed an ID at little or no cost thats fine.


what part of poll taxes being unconstitutional are you having a tough time grasping here?

If republicans are so hot to get a picture ID in the hands of every voter for the reason of preventing voter fraud, why are they so against just issuing them to voters free of charge?

[Trigg]

You can pretend all you want that it is not a burden but others much more versed in these matters have already found it to be the facts.

Why is it the Rs want to spend a shit load of Tax dollars on a non exsistant problem?

I would have no problem giving them out free.

Although you do realize that the gov. would raise taxes elsewhere to pay for the "free" ID right?

As far as $5 dollars being prohibitive, stroll around a poor area sometime. You'll see a bunch of tattoos and cigs, both are a lot more than that small fee.

But again, I'm all for the ID's being free and only given to legal US citizens for the purpose of voting. I do think it would take care of the dead people voting and also people voting in more than one district.

[typomaniac]

So me telling my elected representatives how I feel isn't how our democratic republic works? That's not me telling the government? If 50 people from 50 different states tell their elected representatives how to do something that isn't a democratic republic in action? :slap:

You're 0 for 2 now. The question began with "what good does it do" (to tell the government what you want if it's not even a democracy).

Tell you what: I'll give you a hint. Are you among the elite classes (i.e., families like the Kennedys and the Bushes)?

[jimnyc]

You can pretend all you want that it is not a burden but others much more versed in these matters have already found it to be the facts.

Why is it the Rs want to spend a shit load of Tax dollars on a non exsistant problem?

It's already been proven to you that fraud issues do exist at the polls, you incompetent, illiterate idiot!

[MtnBiker]

Would somebody explain who exactly does not have an ID? Some of you guys freakout over the idea of and ID being used to vote, should and ID be required to apply for government assistance ie foodstamps, welfare, unemployment benefits?

An ID is a very usefull document, the idea that someone would procure an ID for the sole purpose of being able to vote is absurd.

How does a person sustain a legal income without an ID?

[82Marine89]

You're 0 for 2 now. The question began with "what good does it do" (to tell the government what you want if it's not even a democracy).

Tell you what: I'll give you a hint. Are you among the elite classes (i.e., families like the Kennedys and the Bushes)?

You are so full of crap. How many citizens of the United States affected change by bombarding their elected representatives with phone calls, faxes, and emails which effectively stopped amnesty in it's tracks? Maybe telling the government might not be good for Socialists like you that are dependent upon the government to provide for you, but for those of us that believe in a smaller, less dangerous, less intrusive government, it does a lot of good.

Now back to the EC. How is it antiquated and what should be done about it?

[retiredman]

Now back to the EC. How is it antiquated and what should be done about it?

what if you reduced the number of electors by 100 and took two away from each state? That way, a vote cast in the popular election from a small state would not have proportionately more impact on the process than a vote cast in a densely populated state.

[manu1959]

How do you stop from turning it into a poll tax?

an ID is required for reasons other than voting so there is no burden

[retiredman]

Would somebody explain who exactly does not have an ID? Some of you guys freakout over the idea of and ID being used to vote, should and ID be required to apply for government assistance ie foodstamps, welfare, unemployment benefits?

An ID is a very usefull document, the idea that someone would procure an ID for the sole purpose of being able to vote is absurd.

How does a person sustain a legal income without an ID?

My father did not have a photo ID for the last ten years of his life. He no longer drove and had no other need for a photo ID.

I know of at least one vietnam vet in my neighborhood who has been living with his folks since returning. He has never worked and has no photo ID.


The fact remains, if you require a photo ID as a requisite for voting, and it costs a citizen money to procure such an ID - and there is not other legal requirement that they have it - the cost of it is a de facto poll tax.

Make them free. Why is that so hard for republicans to spend the relatively minor amount of money it would take to fix an election system that THEY are whining about being broken?

[MtnBiker]

Make them free. Why is that so hard for republicans to spend the relatively minor amount of money it would take to fix an election system that THEY are whining about being broken?

I already agreed in post #97 that IDs could be provided at no charge.

[MtnBiker]

Nobody as cared to answer if people seeking government assistance should provide any sort of ID. Should they?

[retiredman]

Nothing is free. Actually I would agree, if a elderly person, low income person needed an ID at little or no cost thats fine.


and I take it one step further: if you are going to require it to vote, give it away to everyone....to do otherwise is a poll tax, and just because someone can afford it does not make it any less of a tax, IMHO.

[manu1959]

Nobody as cared to answer if people seeking government assistance should provide any sort of ID. Should they?

yep and drug tested.....

[retiredman]

Nobody as cared to answer if people seeking government assistance should provide any sort of ID. Should they?

I am fairly certain that they do, but I am not sure that the ID they provide must contain a photo.

Birth certificate, SSN card, DD214...for example.

[MtnBiker]

and I take it one step further: if you are going to require it to vote, give it away to everyone....to do otherwise is a poll tax, and just because someone can afford it does not make it any less of a tax, IMHO.

The only arguement would be for people who choose to have an ID soley for voting purposes.

[retiredman]

The only arguement would be for people who choose to have an ID soley for voting purposes.

I agree....I am not suggesting that driver's licenses be free.... and I have no problem with people being allowed to use THOSE for photo ID.... but for people who do not have another form of photo ID, the government should provide one free of charge, regardless of their economic circumstances.... or not require it for voting.

[Immanuel]

Maybe it's just me but you seem to make no sense with this post.

Good points in this post, Trigg and I do seem to be a bit contradicting in what I say. I agree. Let me attempt to explain.


1. your opposed to a national ID card

Yes, I am opposed to a National ID card. The whole thing scares the crap out of me. I can only think of one reason for establishing such a card and that is to control us. As JD pointed out the next step would be the number 666 and a chip on your forehead or on your right hand. They are already promoting this with medical chips they want to force on us. It won't be long.

I have lost confidence in the integrity of our government or actually, the integrity of the men and women that run our government. I do not want them having that much control over me. Now, I do admit that it is naive for me to think that they don't already have such control, but the National Id card to me is just more power to them in my humble opinion.


2. You think a picture ID should be required to vote

The vast majority of adult Americans already carry id's in the form of a driver's license, passport or a state issued id card for non-drivers. I personally cannot believe that any law abiding citizen would not have one. I believe that such an id should be required to cast a ballot.

I do realize that there are some poor people who cannot afford to get an id; therefore, I am agreeable to providing such id's for those who cannot attain one because as JD points out, requiring people to purchase id's before allowing them to vote can be considered a poll tax, not to mention, could be used to exclude certain voters by any number of methods of making it difficult to attain one i.e. the nearest place to get a "free" id is a thousand miles away from those who need it.


3. Your suspicious of anyone who refuses to carry ID

Yes, suspicious of any mentally competent adult American who refuses to carry an id. With today's society being as it is, I can think of no honest reason for a law-abiding, competent American not to possess id.


Ok, now it has been pointed out by johndoe that many states issue a drivers license to illegals and non-citizens. The only other picture ID I know of are passports (expensive at $50 a person) and one credit card (that I know of).

Well, then the laws allowing states to issue driver's licenses to illegals need to be changed or driver's licenses issued to such individuals need to identify the person as not being a citizen of the states on the card. That should not be that difficult.


So, if you are against a national ID card, but want a picture ID at the voting booth, what is your solution.

I think I answered this question above. If a state is going to issue driver's licenses to people who are not citizens of the United States then those driver's licenses need to clearly reflect that the holder is not an American Citizen and does not have voting privileges or other privileges associated with being a citizen. When a person does not have or want an id such as a drivers license or passport and cannot afford to get an id then an id should be provided to them. It need not be a "national id". My daughter is 22 and does not drive, but she has an state issued id card. It was required when we got her passport because they would not accept her "learning permit" as id for the passport... don't ask me why, but they wouldn't do it.


A picture ID would take care of the dead people voting problem IMO since the pic. wouldn't match the person voting. I'm sure the gov. can make them reasonably tamper proof as they have done with the many state drivers licenses.

True, but as I stated in answer to your point #1, I'm concerned with where the government is going with the National Id. We already have several forms of valid id (see an I-9 form for a list of these) and another form is simply unnecessary.

A National Id card may be used to track everything down to then number of bowel movements you have weekly. Why would I want George Bush knowing that? :D

Immie

[Immanuel]

Why is it the Rs want to spend a shit load of Tax dollars on a non exsistant problem?

You are a devout Democrat and you have the guts to ask this question?

Good to see you TM, you have been quiet lately.



As far as $5 dollars being prohibitive, stroll around a poor area sometime. You'll see a bunch of tattoos and cigs, both are a lot more than that small fee.


You forgot the point that so many of them have cell phones!

Immie

[JohnDoe]

My mother in Law did not have a picture id until she was in her 60's, when she first learned to drive.

A picture id was not needed when I got my first credit card account, nor my first checking account, nor my first savings account, nor my first job, ...in fact, I needed a picture id for NOTHING in my life just 10 years ago, other than driving and many people do not drive....look at all the people that use the subway or transit system in the big cities, they don't have licenses....shoot my own grandparents lived here until they died in the late 90's and neither of them had a gvt pictured id...and they were citizens and registered voters.

To say or imply that everyone has a pictured id is simply not true.

In fact I would bet that there are millions upon millions of Americans throughout the USA that do not have a picture id and ARE USA CITIZENS.

I read an article about a city in Georgia that had driver's licence bureau's on average 10 miles or so from where many of the poor lived, and they did not have licences so they just couldn't drive there...it took them missing a full days work (20% of their weekly pay if full time), without pay to take and transfer busses to get there, then wait, then get served, then wait for the picture, then wait for the id and then take the two or three busses back home....it isn't just the cost of getting one of these gvt. picture id's, it is the loss of work, if they can even get it off without chancing losing their job.

And since many states issued driver's licenses to illegal aliens already, a driver's license is not good enough to use as id, you are talking total logistical mayhem to issue a new national id card to every one of us.... and a pretty pricetag i would imagine staffing all of those gvt employees in all of those bureaus to issue every single American a new id with proof of citizenship in a time of war costs, in a time of deficit spending already?

This ain't a SMALL thing that we are talking about.... when it can be solved by requiring proof of citizenship via a birth certificate or citizenship papers if an immigrant within a month of getting registered by a voter drive or many other ways of registering to vote....

and even this will have to be thought through on how to take care of the people that are registered to vote already and pay for some to get a copy of the their birth certificate on those that may not have one.... still alot more efficient solving the issue of purging the illegal immigrants that have managed to work their way on to the voter rolls illegally, than requiring us to get a new, national id card.

And when it comes to the dead, we need to have the state make a list of those that died via the death certificates and purge these people off the voter rolls.

and keeping these voter rolls clean, will help in the situation with absentee voting.... BTW how would a picture id be required from them, THE ABSENTEE voter which is also where alot of fraud can take place like voting of dead people?

This is not a partisan thing here guys and gals, this is about every citizen having the right to vote for their representation if they want to do such.

And this is about each of us citizens not getting our vote dilluted by people voting that DO NOT have the right to vote, because they are not citizens.

jd

[manu1959]

so if someone knows your name they can simply walk in and vote for you no proof required......

[82Marine89]

what if you reduced the number of electors by 100 and took two away from each state? That way, a vote cast in the popular election from a small state would not have proportionately more impact on the process than a vote cast in a densely populated state.

By removing two electors from each state, you effectively remove the voice of the legislatures from all 50 states.

[retiredman]

By removing two electors from each state, you effectively remove the voice of the legislatures from all 50 states.

what real voice do the legislatures from the states have in presidential elections and how does removing two electoral votes silence it?

[JohnDoe]

so if someone knows your name they can simply walk in and vote for you no proof required......

Who does that Manu? Who? Show one case of someone doing that...?

Why would they risk the chance of going to the voting district and using your name and address to vote in your place, only to risk that you have already come in and voted?

This is not where the voter fraud is taking place....other than people using dead people that they know the name and address and political party so that they can vote for them and also take the chance of the person at the desk knowing the person that is dead? They may use absentee ballots to vote for the dead but I doubt they come in to the voting booth...and as I have mentioned dead people need to be removed from the valid voter roll when they die, problem solved.

And the illegals, or millions of them i would bet, already have a driver's licence, i read that 16 states allow them to get driver's licenses, and i know maine a birth certificate if over 22 is not required to get a driver's license?

So what kind af fraud are you trying to stop? The suggestions that I have made to weed out the illegals and dead man walking voters would take care of the problem without having to go through this huge expense of making all of us getting a national id card and without those of us that object to the gvt having such in complete misery! :eek:

And also, you would then not be disenfranchising millions of LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS from voting....? I am beginning to wonder myself now if that is really not the TRUE GOAL?

and like i have said many illegals hold licenses?

jd

[82Marine89]

what real voice do the legislatures from the states have in presidential elections and how does removing two electoral votes silence it?

Ask the 100 senators in Washington D.C.

[manu1959]

Ask the 100 senators in Washington D.C.

i love the beaty of 2 from each state.....each state gets and equal voice period.....and it it is not based on anything other than it is a state....

[82Marine89]

i love the beaty of 2 from each state.....each state gets and equal voice period.....and it it is not based on anything other than it is a state....

What I would like to know is why libs have a problem with the EC when a pubbie wins, but they are silent when a dem wins.

[JohnDoe]

What I would like to know is why libs have a problem with the EC when a pubbie wins, but they are silent when a dem wins.the ec only comes in to question when the popular vote does not match up with it....which is very rare....happened in 2000 and maybe 1 or 2 other times in our history i think?

[retiredman]

Ask the 100 senators in Washington D.C.


now if you could only tell me what the state legislatures have to do with u.s. senators, that would be real nice.

[82Marine89]

now if you could only tell me what the state legislatures have to do with u.s. senators, that would be real nice.

You're shitting me right? You really don't know how the EC was designed?

[retiredman]

You're shitting me right? You really don't know how the EC was designed?

Quit with the faux righteous indignation and explain how removing two electoral votes from states today would take their state legislatures completely out of the process.

I'll wait.

[manu1959]

What I would like to know is why libs have a problem with the EC when a pubbie wins, but they are silent when a dem wins.

ever hear the story of the frog and the scorpion.......

[82Marine89]

Quit with the faux righteous indignation and explain how removing two electoral votes from states today would take their state legislatures completely out of the process.

I'll wait.

Because the senate was designed to be representatives of the state. It enticed smaller republics to join the union because it gave them an equal voice at the federal level. Each senator gets one electoral vote. Removing that removes the voice of the state legislatures.

[retiredman]

Because the senate was designed to be representatives of the state. It enticed smaller republics to join the union because it gave them an equal voice at the federal level. Each senator gets one electoral vote. Removing that removes the voice of the state legislatures.

you seem to be going around in circles...what voice do state legislatures have in the election of the president? I understand how the Senate was designed and I know that, up until the 17 amendment, state legislatures CHOSE senators, but what voice do state legislatures NOW exercise in the process and how would reducing the electoral votes by two for each state silence it?

I'll keep waiting, but not if you keep spinning.

[Sitarro]

It's very simple, the IRS could be responsible for providing the photo ID for all taxpayers. If you don't pay your taxes you don't contribute anything to this country and should not be allowed to vote...... period.

[manu1959]

It's very simple, the IRS could be responsible for providing the photo ID for all taxpayers. If you don't pay your taxes you don't contribute anything to this country and should not be allowed to vote...... period.

paying taxes is a poll tax...:poke:

[typomaniac]

You are so full of crap. How many citizens of the United States affected change by bombarding their elected representatives with phone calls, faxes, and emails which effectively stopped amnesty in it's tracks? Maybe telling the government might not be good for Socialists like you that are dependent upon the government to provide for you, but for those of us that believe in a smaller, less dangerous, less intrusive government, it does a lot of good.

Now back to the EC. How is it antiquated and what should be done about it?

Not only is amnesty far from being stopped in its tracks (sadly), it's clear from you post that you don't have the first clue what socialism even is. No more point in answering your aimless spin: I'll let MFM get back to owning you.

[Immanuel]

It's very simple, the IRS could be responsible for providing the photo ID for all taxpayers. If you don't pay your taxes you don't contribute anything to this country and should not be allowed to vote...... period.

Then we would be right back to the National Id card. Why not simply require all citizens to have this card in order to make any purchase, travel, or what have you?

Immie

[82Marine89]

you seem to be going around in circles...what voice do state legislatures have in the election of the president? I understand how the Senate was designed and I know that, up until the 17 amendment, state legislatures CHOSE senators, but what voice do state legislatures NOW exercise in the process and how would reducing the electoral votes by two for each state silence it?

I'll keep waiting, but not if you keep spinning.

I'll give you that they don't have a direct voice, but I still contend that senators are supposed to be representatives of the state and not the people. In the Senate, each state has exactly two representatives/electoral votes, giving EVERY state equal power. The Senate was created to encourage those very small states to enter the Union. Otherwise, it would not be logical for states with tiny populations (relative to the U.S. population) to enter into a true representative Union as they would be relinquishing their own sovereign power over themselves by doing so.

[82Marine89]

Not only is amnesty far from being stopped in its tracks (sadly), it's clear from you post that you don't have the first clue what socialism even is. No more point in answering your aimless spin: I'll let MFM get back to owning you.

So you let MFM argue your points for you? I asked you, not him.

[JohnDoe]

It's very simple, the IRS could be responsible for providing the photo ID for all taxpayers. If you don't pay your taxes you don't contribute anything to this country and should not be allowed to vote...... period. As Manu has mentioned to you, having to pay income taxes in order to vote IS A POLL TAX, and not permissable.

Besides, there are plenty of Americans that are young, yet still eligible to vote because they are 18 or over, that do not file income taxes because they do not earn enough, if anything at all.

And there are plenty of Seniors that do not have to file income taxes too, from what I understand?

jd

[5stringJeff]

I'm a day late and a dollar short, but here's my position (CWN-style):

1. Yes, require photo IDs to vote.
1a. Since most people have/use driver's licenses as their primary form of ID, make it a federal law that to obtain a driver's license, you must provide proof of citizenship. Then, make everyone renew their driver's license within the next two years.
2. A poll tax is a tax exacted at the polls exclusively to vote. Paying money to the state to obtain an ID, which can be used for purposes other than voting, is not a poll tax, plain and simple.
3. The Electoral College is in place because states, not the people, elect the President. To answer MFM's question, each state gets the number of electors equal to the number of Representatives and Senators from the state. If you take two electors from each state, you now have the number of electors from each state equal to the number of Representatives from each state, which is exactly the same as having a popular election. Therefore, taking those two electors out defeats the purpose of the EC.

[82Marine89]

As Manu has mentioned to you, having to pay income taxes in order to vote IS A POLL TAX, and not permissable.

Besides, there are plenty of Americans that are young, yet still eligible to vote because they are 18 or over, that do not file income taxes because they do not earn enough, if anything at all.

And there are plenty of Seniors that do not have to file income taxes too, from what I understand?

jd

You forgot illegals. :poke:

[typomaniac]

I'm a day late and a dollar short, but here's my position (CWN-style):

1. Yes, require photo IDs to vote.
1a. Since most people have/use driver's licenses as their primary form of ID, make it a federal law that to obtain a driver's license, you must provide proof of citizenship. Then, make everyone renew their driver's license within the next two years.
2. A poll tax is a tax exacted at the polls exclusively to vote. Paying money to the state to obtain an ID, which can be used for purposes other than voting, is not a poll tax, plain and simple.
3. The Electoral College is in place because states, not the people, elect the President. To answer MFM's question, each state gets the number of electors equal to the number of Representatives and Senators from the state. If you take two electors from each state, you now have the number of electors from each state equal to the number of Representatives from each state, which is exactly the same as having a popular election. Therefore, taking those two electors out defeats the purpose of the EC.You forgot to say "Sorry bout that" and put asterisks around the title of your post. :laugh:

[JohnDoe]

You forgot illegals. :poke:

82

Since many states have issued driver's licenses to Illegals already, the only way I see us being able to purge them from the valid voter rolls, is to require all of us registered to vote already, send a copy of our birth certificants or legal citizenship papers for legal immigrants in to the voter registration office.

Those that can not show a birth certificate etc, would get purged.

Of course, if one doesn't have a copy of their Birth certificate and is poor, we would have to fund the money for them to get a certified copy of it, so that they can send a copy to the voter registration division, but this still would cost us ALOT less money as tax payers than it would for every single american being forced to get a National id card, since it has already been proven that State Driver's licenses are issued to illegals in many states already.

the other issue is the voter registration drives, we don't want to limit those and not everyone would have a copy of their birth certificate on hand at the time that they got registered... but this could be handled by requiring them to send a copy of their birth certificate to the Registrars office within a limited amount of time, like a month or two, or their names will not be added to the voter rolls as valid...they could be handed a prepaid postage envelope to do such when registering too... or a number of things to make this work could be instituted.

And then, we could also eliminate the dead man walking voters and the illegal voters that would use the absentee system to vote by eliminating the dead people when they die from the valid rolls and the illegals via not sending a valid birth certificate or citizenship papers.

Everyone seems very concerned with getting the illegal immigrants off the voting rolls and bringing in a simple gvt ID like a driver's license will not do this because of all of the illegals that have these driver's licenses already.

I feel it is very important to get rid of the illegal voters as much as the rest of you all because it dilutes the votes of us legal citizens.

jd

[Dilloduck]

82

Since many states have issued driver's licenses to Illegals already, the only way I see us being able to purge them from the valid voter rolls, is to require all of us registered to vote already, send a copy of our birth certificants or legal citizenship papers for legal immigrants in to the voter registration office.

Those that can not show a birth certificate etc, would get purged.

Of course, if one doesn't have a copy of their Birth certificate and is poor, we would have to fund the money for them to get a certified copy of it, so that they can send a copy to the voter registration division, but this still would cost us ALOT less money as tax payers than it would for every single american being forced to get a National id card, since it has already been proven that State Driver's licenses are issued to illegals in many states already.

the other issue is the voter registration drives, we don't want to limit those and not everyone would have a copy of their birth certificate on hand at the time that they got registered... but this could be handled by requiring them to send a copy of their birth certificate to the Registrars office within a limited amount of time, like a month or two, or their names will not be added to the voter rolls as valid...they could be handed a prepaid postage envelope to do such when registering too... or a number of things to make this work could be instituted.

And then, we could also eliminate the dead man walking voters and the illegal voters that would use the absentee system to vote by eliminating the dead people when they die from the valid rolls and the illegals via not sending a valid birth certificate or citizenship papers.

Everyone seems very concerned with getting the illegal immigrants off the voting rolls and bringing in a simple gvt ID like a driver's license will not do this because of all of the illegals that have these driver's licenses already.

I feel it is very important to get rid of the illegal voters as much as the rest of you all because it dilutes the votes of us legal citizens.

jd

So----birth certificate to register to vote and birth certificate to vote at your precinct ?

[Trigg]

So----birth certificate to register to vote and birth certificate to vote at your precinct ?

Good point, every legal US citizen already has one. The only bad thing is it doesn't have a picture.

Everyone is going back and forth on this issue.

1. they don't want to use a drivers license -
A. some people don't have them
B. Some states issue them to illegals

2. They want a picture ID
3. they don't want a national ID card
4. They want an ID to be free
A. Problem here is NOTHING is free and the gov. would find a way to tax us somewhere else to pay for the "Free" card.


Well, since no one can agree. Let the cheating at the polls continue unabated. Since someone somewhere might have to pay or travel to obtain an ID, and since said someone doesn't want the gov. to know who they are that just isn't permissable.

Said person hopefully already knows that the gov. has bank records, SS#, birth certificate and any number of other ways to keep track of just what they're up to anyway.

Carry on :cheers2:

[Dilloduck]

Good point, every legal US citizen already has one. The only bad thing is it doesn't have a picture.

Everyone is going back and forth on this issue.

1. they don't want to use a drivers license -
A. some people don't have them
B. Some states issue them to illegals

2. They want a picture ID
3. they don't want a national ID card
4. They want an ID to be free
A. Problem here is NOTHING is free and the gov. would find a way to tax us somewhere else to pay for the "Free" card.


Well, since no one can agree. Let the cheating at the polls continue unabated. Since someone somewhere might have to pay or travel to obtain an ID, and since said someone doesn't want the gov. to know who they are that just isn't permissable.

Said person hopefully already knows that the gov. has bank records, SS#, birth certificate and any number of other ways to keep track of just what they're up to anyway.

Carry on :cheers2:

Excellent points----it's pretty tough to ensure a fair vote when people want to maintain "anonymity" and refuse to pay a small fee. You know on the IRS form where you can donate a buck for the elections ? How about a box to donate to the Voter ID fund?

[Trigg]

Excellent points----it's pretty tough to ensure a fair vote when people want to maintain "anonymity" and refuse to pay a small fee. You know on the IRS form where you can donate a buck for the elections ? How about a box to donate to the Voter ID fund?

Excellent idea, I've never donated a $1, completely forgot about that.

They could give them away at the drivers license branch (pic and everything) and require you to renew them along with your license.

Free-everyones happy-no poll tax

License branches are everywhere-no long travel required for those poor folks

That's everyone but the people who don't want an national ID cause the gubment would know who they are. Oh well

[JohnDoe]

looks like the real id act is already in place to take place.... BUMMER!

here is what ron paul had to say about it, and i agree with him on this.

my state of maine has opted OUT, but that now will prevent me from being able to fly, be held in captivity, in the USA because i won't be able to cross a border.... homeland security has free access to add other requirements to it, can follow you anywhere you go...

how in the hell can you insist the gvt does not keep track of those that own guns for those 2nd amendment lovers, while you allow your representatives to vote something like this in to law?:dunno:


HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 9, 2005

HR 418- A National ID Bill Masquerading as Immigration Reform

Mr. Speaker:

I rise in strong opposition to HR 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to make us safer from terrorists who may sneak into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make us more secure. It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty.

What is wrong with this bill?

The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states include certain minimum identification standards on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.

Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However, any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary.

Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that “the federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification such as driver’s licenses.” So they admit that they want a national ID but at the same time pretend that this is not a national ID.

This bill establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” this bill creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and Mexico!

This bill could have a chilling effect on the exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights. It re-defines "terrorism" in broad new terms that could well include members of firearms rights and anti-abortion groups, or other such groups as determined by whoever is in power at the time. There are no prohibitions against including such information in the database as information about a person’s exercise of First Amendment rights or about a person’s appearance on a registry of firearms owners.

This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver’s licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID would mean that the federal government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of the day and night.

There are no limits on what happens to the database of sensitive information on Americans once it leaves the United States for Canada and Mexico - or perhaps other countries. Who is to stop a corrupt foreign government official from selling or giving this information to human traffickers or even terrorists? Will this uncertainty make us feel safer?

What will all of this mean for us? When this new program is implemented, every time we are required to show our driver’s license we will, in fact, be showing a national identification card. We will be handing over a card that includes our personal and likely biometric information, information which is connected to a national and international database.

H.R. 418 does nothing to solve the growing threat to national security posed by people who are already in the U.S. illegally. Instead, H.R. 418 states what we already know: that certain people here illegally are "deportable." But it does nothing to mandate deportation.

Although Congress funded an additional 2,000 border guards last year, the administration has announced that it will only ask for an additional 210 guards. Why are we not pursuing these avenues as a way of safeguarding our country? Why are we punishing Americans by taking away their freedoms instead of making life more difficult for those who would enter our country illegally?

H.R. 418 does what legislation restricting firearm ownership does. It punishes law-abiding citizens. Criminals will ignore it. H.R. 418 offers us a false sense of greater security at the cost of taking a gigantic step toward making America a police state.

I urge my colleagues to vote “NO” on the REAL ID Act of 2005

[Immanuel]

Let the cheating at the polls continue unabated. Since someone somewhere might have to pay or travel to obtain an ID, and since said someone doesn't want the gov. to know who they are that just isn't permissable.

Said person hopefully already knows that the gov. has bank records, SS#, birth certificate and any number of other ways to keep track of just what they're up to anyway.

Carry on :cheers2:

Are you sure you are not a politician? :lol:

That is exactly what they want. The unabated ability to cheat at the polls... for their side that is. They want to stop the other side from cheating (Dems want to stop electronic voting because the programs MAY be compromised and Reps want to stop dead men from voting Democrat) but none of them want to stop both forms (or all forms) of cheating. Now you side with them and say like some people, "since we can't be certain that there is fraud involved (on my side) we should do nothing to prevent it from happening in the future in the mean time we KNOW the other side cheats so we have to stop them right now."

Are you sure you are not a politician?

Immie

PS I will let you all guess who I am paraphrasing in that paragraph.

[retiredman]

I'm a day late and a dollar short, but here's my position (CWN-style):

1. Yes, require photo IDs to vote.
1a. Since most people have/use driver's licenses as their primary form of ID, make it a federal law that to obtain a driver's license, you must provide proof of citizenship. Then, make everyone renew their driver's license within the next two years.
2. A poll tax is a tax exacted at the polls exclusively to vote. Paying money to the state to obtain an ID, which can be used for purposes other than voting, is not a poll tax, plain and simple.
3. The Electoral College is in place because states, not the people, elect the President. To answer MFM's question, each state gets the number of electors equal to the number of Representatives and Senators from the state. If you take two electors from each state, you now have the number of electors from each state equal to the number of Representatives from each state, which is exactly the same as having a popular election. Therefore, taking those two electors out defeats the purpose of the EC.


a few points:

1. I know how the electoral college works and how its numbers are established. My question was rhetorical

2. If people do not have a photo ID, and they are required to get one in order to vote, regardless of what other purposes it might be used for after the fact.... it remains a poll tax. I say again: my father did not have a photo ID for at least a decade before he died, yet he voted in every election. He had no need for any form of photo ID and to have required that he get one in order to vote would have beena poll tax. pure and simple.

3. taking two electors from each state would definitely NOT be EXACTLY the same as having a popular election. It would still be quite possible for a candidate to win the popular vote by a significant margin and still lose the electoral college.

[Immanuel]

a few points:

If people do not have a photo ID, and they are required to get one in order to vote, regardless of what other purposes it might be used for after the fact.... it remains a poll tax. I say again: my father did not have a photo ID for at least a decade before he died, yet he voted in every election. He had no need for any form of photo ID and to have required that he get one in order to vote would have beena poll tax. pure and simple.



So, in fact, if you wanted to, you could actually be voting for your dad in the next election? Because they would not have removed his name from the rolls and you could go in and vote for the Democrat of your choice twice without anyone questioning you.

You know he is deceased and will not be voting. You don't need a picture id, so you could go vote for your dad.

Not that you would as we realize that all Democrats are saints (I'm not saying you believe this, but others here do) and only a Republican would stoop so low.

This is why picture ids should be required.

Immie

PS I realize you have said many times that you believe an id should be required as long as it is free to those in need. It is others who I believe need to read this, but again she will come up with an excuse why it is wrong.

[Yurt]

a few points:

1. I know how the electoral college works and how its numbers are established. My question was rhetorical

2. If people do not have a photo ID, and they are required to get one in order to vote, regardless of what other purposes it might be used for after the fact.... it remains a poll tax. I say again: my father did not have a photo ID for at least a decade before he died, yet he voted in every election. He had no need for any form of photo ID and to have required that he get one in order to vote would have beena poll tax. pure and simple.

3. taking two electors from each state would definitely NOT be EXACTLY the same as having a popular election. It would still be quite possible for a candidate to win the popular vote by a significant margin and still lose the electoral college.

where in the constitution does it guarantee the right to vote without being required to show ID?

[retiredman]

where in the constitution does it guarantee the right to vote without being required to show ID?

silly question.

and irrelevant.

[Yurt]

silly question.

and irrelevant.

translation:

I can't form a cohesive thought to debate with Yurt so I will create a logical fallacy by using ad hominem arguments.

It is wholly relevent. It goes entirely to the issue of what exactly constitutes a "poll tax." As I and many have said, requiring an ID is not a poll tax, de facto or anything else. I have also pointed out that CA has a $7 ID for those with low incomes. Should we require this for voting, are you actually telling me that people cannot afford $7?

Would you be ok if the ID was free?

[retiredman]

you and RSR...so good at "translations".

Do you practice together in each other's rumpus rooms?

Please....tell me what your question has to do with the fact that requiring a citizen to purchase a photo ID card solely for the purpose of voting is tantamount to a poll tax?

I'll wait.

and if you had taken the time to read any of my other posts in this thread you would have already read the answer to your last question.

[Yurt]

you and RSR...so good at "translations".

Do you practice together in each other's rumpus rooms?

Please....tell me what your question has to do with the fact that requiring a citizen to purchase a photo ID card solely for the purpose of voting is tantamount to a poll tax?

I'll wait.

and if you had taken the time to read any of my other posts in this thread you would have already read the answer to your last question.

I already did. You have no right to an ID free vote. You have no right to live in society without the requirement of an ID. You argument is pathetic and desperate. So much so that you have conjured up in your mind two men in a "rumpus" room. If you want to get into gay porn, go to another website.

[retiredman]

I already did. You have no right to an ID free vote. You have no right to live in society without the requirement of an ID. You argument is pathetic and desperate. So much so that you have conjured up in your mind two men in a "rumpus" room. If you want to get into gay porn, go to another website.


show me where, in the constitution, it states that you must present a photo ID in order to be able to cast a vote.

I'll wait.

And, as I said...if you want to get into a discussion, read up on it first. Rather than ask me redundant questions, read posts 118, 129 and 133...for starters.

[jimnyc]

show me where, in the constitution, it states that you must present a photo ID in order to be able to cast a vote.

Should it matter? What if it did? It would only be part of a "procedure" for voting, and therefore ok to bend the rules, no?

[Yurt]

show me where, in the constitution, it states that you must present a photo ID in order to be able to cast a vote.

I'll wait.

And, as I said...if you want to get into a discussion, read up on it first. Rather than ask me redundant questions, read posts 118, 129 and 133...for starters.

so if it is NOT expressly stated so in the constitution, is it then unconstitutional to you? where in the constitution does it say you can use a pencil to vote? electronic voting? punching holes? voting at the ymca? your right to vote is not absolute MFM. if it were, then being a felon would not effect your right. here is what protects your right:

1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.


Thats it. There is nothing there about the right being abridged by requiring the person taking your vote, to make sure, that it is in fact you.

If congress declared that all person over 18 have a photo ID, guess what, you couldn't do squat about it.

[retiredman]

Should it matter? What if it did? It would only be part of a "procedure" for voting, and therefore ok to bend the rules, no?

a citizen does not need to DO anything to exercise his right to vote other than appear at a polilng place. If government requires other things, and those things cost the citizen money, they are poll taxes. period.

[retiredman]

so if it is NOT expressly stated so in the constitution, is it then unconstitutional to you? where in the constitution does it say you can use a pencil to vote? electronic voting? punching holes? voting at the ymca? your right to vote is not absolute MFM. if it were, then being a felon would not effect your right. here is what protects your right:

1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.


Thats it. There is nothing there about the right being abridged by requiring the person taking your vote, to make sure, that it is in fact you.

If congress declared that all person over 18 have a photo ID, guess what, you couldn't do squat about it.

if congress did not provide for means for citizens who did not need that ID for any reason other than voting to be provided those ID free, then anyone could do a lot more than squat about it...they could file a lawsuit and, as it stands right now, that law would be found to be unconstitutional because it would be viewed as a poll tax.

[jimnyc]

a citizen does not need to DO anything to exercise his right to vote other than appear at a polilng place. If government requires other things, and those things cost the citizen money, they are poll taxes. period.

Why can't the government require other things? And if they aren't supposed to, why can't they just bend the rules on this matter a little?

[retiredman]

Why can't the government require other things? And if they aren't supposed to, why can't they just bend the rules on this matter a little?

you seem to like the idea of government bending rules....

I'll bet when they come and drag you away in the dead of night, it will only be a bending of the rules, eh?

The government, IMHO, cannot require a citizen to spend money for the sole purpose of voting. period. If you wanna bend that, bend everything....bend anything.... laws? who gives a fuck? damned raghead had it coming anyway!

[jimnyc]

you seem to like the idea of government bending rules....

I'll bet when they come and drag you away in the dead of night, it will only be a bending of the rules, eh?

The government, IMHO, cannot require a citizen to spend money for the sole purpose of voting. period. If you wanna bend that, bend everything....bend anything.... laws? who gives a fuck? damned raghead had it coming anyway!

Hey, YOU are the one who defended the bending of the rules on the voting issue in the other thread. I'm just trying to see where your "rule bending" ceases, when you think it's ok and when you think it's not.

So basically, sometimes it's ok for our politicians to bend the rules when voting themselves, but that's where it should stop?

[typomaniac]

The way some people here are going on, it doesn't look like the rightwing parrot heads will be happy until we all have chips implanted under our skin. Like dogs.

[Yurt]

if congress did not provide for means for citizens who did not need that ID for any reason other than voting to be provided those ID free, then anyone could do a lot more than squat about it...they could file a lawsuit and, as it stands right now, that law would be found to be unconstitutional because it would be viewed as a poll tax.

No it wouldn't. What about poor people who live in rural areas that cannot afford to get to a polling station?

Again I ask:

What is unconstitutional about requiring the person voting to prove that he or she is that person?

[retiredman]

Hey, YOU are the one who defended the bending of the rules on the voting issue in the other thread. I'm just trying to see where your "rule bending" ceases, when you think it's ok and when you think it's not.

So basically, sometimes it's ok for our politicians to bend the rules when voting themselves, but that's where it should stop?

if you are unaware of trhe differences between procedural votes and enactments, perhaps you need to be having this discussion with someone else.... a kindergarterner, for example?

[Yurt]

Hey, YOU are the one who defended the bending of the rules on the voting issue in the other thread. I'm just trying to see where your "rule bending" ceases, when you think it's ok and when you think it's not.

So basically, sometimes it's ok for our politicians to bend the rules when voting themselves, but that's where it should stop?

that was good

[jimnyc]

The way some people here are going on, it doesn't look like the rightwing parrot heads will be happy until we all have chips implanted under our skin. Like dogs.

If the stupid fucks better known as "democrats" weren't so busy trying to "bend" the rules to their liking we wouldn't have a need to force the issue and determine identity.

[typomaniac]

If the stupid fucks better known as "democrats" weren't so busy trying to "bend" the rules to their liking we wouldn't have a need to force the issue and determine identity.

The stupid fucks known as Democrats weren't the first ones to complain about the Florida ballots in 2000. That was the other big group of stupid fucks.

[retiredman]

No it wouldn't. What about poor people who live in rural areas that cannot afford to get to a polling station?

Again I ask:

What is unconstitutional about requiring the person voting to prove that he or she is that person?

I personally know all the poll workers in my town. I walk up and they call me by name. There is not need for me to provide any PHOTO ID...there is no constitutional requirement that I do so either. If government wants to make that a requirement, I have absolutely NO issue with that, as long as those citizens who have no other need for a PHOTO ID other than voting are provided one free of charge.

[Yurt]

if you are unaware of trhe differences between procedural votes and enactments, perhaps you need to be having this discussion with someone else.... a kindergarterner, for example?

so you do admit to different rules for different folks.

btw, when we vote it is NOT an enactment. it is procedural vote whereby we place our vote for whom we like. that said vote is a fundamental right, does not take away its procecedural process. if our elected folks can vote for others, why can't we? need some remedial lessons?

[jimnyc]

if you are unaware of trhe differences between procedural votes and enactments, perhaps you need to be having this discussion with someone else.... a kindergarterner, for example?

Look, you want to start with the flaming, you lying piece of shit? For a guy who CLAIMS to be of the cloth and CLAIMS to be ex-military, you act more like an ex-con piece of filth.

Anytime you want to match intelligence we'll pick a subject and enter the debate arena and allow the whole board to witness me make you look like the fucking little asshole you are.

Now stop getting your faggoty ass panties in a wad because you got busted speaking out both sides of your pathetic mouth and get back to the subject at hand - or I'll be happy to shred you like the turd you are.

[retiredman]

so you do admit to different rules for different folks.

btw, when we vote it is NOT an enactment. it is procedural vote whereby we place our vote for whom we like. that said vote is a fundamental right, does not take away its procecedural process. if our elected folks can vote for others, why can't we? need some remedial lessons?

if you want to claim that voting by the public in general elections is synonymous with votes cast on the floor of our various legislatures, we really have nothing else to discuss.

[Yurt]

I personally know all the poll workers in my town. I walk up and they call me by name. There is not need for me to provide any PHOTO ID...there is no constitutional requirement that I do so either. If government wants to make that a requirement, I have absolutely NO issue with that, as long as those citizens who have no other need for a PHOTO ID other than voting are provided one free of charge.

good lord, may we be as lucky as you to live in such an "ideal" town.

as long as they have no, absolute no other means, then fine with me. my tax dollars go to so much socialist crap, at least here it would somewhat help the voting process. i still find it hard to believe that anyone can't afford 7$. i mean if you are on welfare, then allow welfare dollars to buy the ID.

i think you are making a big deal over nothing because you are scared that requiring ID will ruin the dems chances of winning ever again.

[Yurt]

if you want to claim that voting by the public in general elections is synonymous with votes cast on the floor of our various legislatures, we really have nothing else to discuss.

as long as you admit they are breaking their own rules big guy

[retiredman]

Look, you want to start with the flaming, you lying piece of shit? For a guy who CLAIMS to be of the cloth and CLAIMS to be ex-military, you act more like an ex-con piece of filth.

Anytime you want to match intelligence we'll pick a subject and enter the debate arena and allow the whole board to witness me make you look like the fucking little asshole you are.

Now stop getting your faggoty ass panties in a wad because you got busted speaking out both sides of your pathetic mouth and get back to the subject at hand - or I'll be happy to shred you like the turd you are.

back off jimmy.... that was uncalled for.

I am suggesting that procedural votes are cast at the rate of a hundred a day while state legislatures are in session.... and concurrently with the action on the floor, committees are meeting for public hearings from dawn til dusk.... and state legislators cannot be in two places at once... we expect them to serve on their committees with diligence and hear all the testimony about bills before them... and we expect them to vote on the issues that matter to us... and that, in the grand scheme of things, this is really chickenshit...and that if any REALLY important votes had been cast in ways that the absent legislator really objected to, there would be a huge outcry.....

but hey, if that is really so hard for a prodigious intellect as yours to wrap your brain cells around....flame on!:laugh2:

[retiredman]

as long as you admit they are breaking their own rules big guy

and if the specific rule in question were really on worth worrying about, I am sure that it would be abided by.

[jimnyc]

back off jimmy.... that was uncalled for.

As was your kindergarten comment, I'm just better at it. Push me, and I'll push you back into the fucking ground. YOU always start the shit, then call for me to back off. How about you try to remain an adult to begin with and we can avoid these types of situations? Shouldn't be so hard for someone who thinks he is more intelligent.


and we expect them to vote on the issues that matter to us...

And that's all that matters in the tripe you wrote. And in the video in reference they WEREN'T voting as we are paying them to do. Maybe you feel it's ok to bend the rules to what YOU approve of, but they broke the rules nonetheless and it shouldn't be tolerated from a government we are laying our trust in - democrat or republican.

[retiredman]

good lord, may we be as lucky as you to live in such an "ideal" town.

as long as they have no, absolute no other means, then fine with me. my tax dollars go to so much socialist crap, at least here it would somewhat help the voting process. i still find it hard to believe that anyone can't afford 7$. i mean if you are on welfare, then allow welfare dollars to buy the ID.

i think you are making a big deal over nothing because you are scared that requiring ID will ruin the dems chances of winning ever again.

think what you would like. If photo IDs were so important to REPUBLICANS because they were so worried about fraud, it would stand to reason that they would be more than willing to fund the provision of those IDs to citizens in order to ensure a fraud free election. I THINK that the republicans are making a big deal out of it because they want to further disenfranchise the poor who traditionally vote for democrats.

[retiredman]

As was your kindergarten comment, I'm just better at it. Push me, and I'll push you back into the fucking ground. YOU always start the shit, then call for me to back off. How about you try to remain an adult to begin with and we can avoid these types of situations? Shouldn't be so hard for someone who thinks he is more intelligent.



And that's all that matters in the tripe you wrote. And in the video in reference they WEREN'T voting as we are paying them to do. Maybe you feel it's ok to bend the rules to what YOU approve of, but they broke the rules nonetheless and it shouldn't be tolerated from a government we are laying our trust in - democrat or republican.

making a big deal out of legislators pushing voting buttons on procedural votes for colleagues away at committee hearings is something a kindergartener would do. I am already on record here as suggesting that Texas alter their rules accordingly. But regardless, it is counting the angels on the head of a pin...it is chickenshit trivial bullshit...but hey.... go for it.... get all outraged... throw a fucking hissy fit...and then curl up on your blanky for a nap while the adults talk about shit that really means something....

[Yurt]

and if the specific rule in question were really on worth worrying about, I am sure that it would be abided by.

case in point! as long as MFM doesn't need the rule, then eff the rule.

[Yurt]

think what you would like. If photo IDs were so important to REPUBLICANS because they were so worried about fraud, it would stand to reason that they would be more than willing to fund the provision of those IDs to citizens in order to ensure a fraud free election. I THINK that the republicans are making a big deal out of it because they want to further disenfranchise the poor who traditionally vote for democrats.

Of course I think what I like. Be somewhat alright if you did too. Since you can't -- why are dems so WORRIED about IDs?

Why are dems pushing so hard to give IDs/drivers licenses to ILLEGAL aliens? You guys are the one fighting this so hard, yet, want drivers licenses for illegal aliens in California.

You again, and again, fail to address my point:

Where in the constitution does it say you can vote without ID? You actually made the argument for me:

I live in a town where every poll person knows me, hence I don't need ID.

Great for you. Again, what is the big deal?

[jimnyc]

but hey.... go for it.... get all outraged... throw a fucking hissy fit...and then curl up on your blanky for a nap while the adults talk about shit that really means something....

What's wrong, pussy boy? Getting a little uptight that I called your lies into question again? Did I hit a little close to home by mentioning your repetitive lies about being in the military? Or you inane bullshit about being a man of the cloth, when you act like a piece of dirt not worthy of entering a church?

That's ALL you do is talk shit, and you're as transparent as scotch tape. A pussy like you could never be in our military, and garbage such as you would have been weeded out of the church.

But continue to keep talking out of your ass and all we see is the shit coming out of your mouth.

[Yurt]

scotch tape is transparent?

:laugh2:

[jimnyc]

scotch tape is transparent?

:laugh2:

Can you not see through it? Well, just because you can see through this disphit even easier doesn't mean that scotch tape isn't transparent.

[retiredman]

What's wrong, pussy boy? Getting a little uptight that I called your lies into question again? Did I hit a little close to home by mentioning your repetitive lies about being in the military? Or you inane bullshit about being a man of the cloth, when you act like a piece of dirt not worthy of entering a church?

That's ALL you do is talk shit, and you're as transparent as scotch tape. A pussy like you could never be in our military, and garbage such as you would have been weeded out of the church.

But continue to keep talking out of your ass and all we see is the shit coming out of your mouth.

I am not getting upset about anything, jimmy.... I merely point out that getting outraged about this Texas incident is silly.

[Yurt]

Can you not see through it? Well, just because you can see through this disphit even easier doesn't mean that scotch tape isn't transparent.

its only transparent when you press it against something.... like MFM, but by itself, scotchtape has a worthier reputation....LOL

[jimnyc]

I am not getting upset about anything, jimmy.... I merely point out that getting outraged about this Texas incident is silly.

Fine, then I'm merely pointing out our government breaking the rules, and someone condoning it while condemning ways to reel in voting fraud at the same time.

[jimnyc]

MFM - if you suddenly want me to stop with my flaming and give the appearance of taking the higher road - do so here where you started it and not via PM. YOU started shit here and I simply gave it back better. If you want me to stop, it's real simple, act like an adult yourself and stop attacking first. If you don't like my arguments, fine, but don't call my intelligence into question as a result and ridicule me. I give as good as I get, and better, but I have no problem debating fairly when others do too.

But please, stop with the passive aggressive bullshit, and don't contact me privately to stop when YOU start shit.

[typomaniac]

Fine, then I'm merely pointing out our government breaking the rules, and someone condoning it while condemning ways to reel in voting fraud at the same time.

Well, if you want to split hairs, it's not OUR government at all, Jim. Neither you, I nor MFM lives in Texas.

(Having lived there in the past, however, I can say that this video did not at all surprise me.)

[retiredman]

MFM - if you suddenly want me to stop with my flaming and give the appearance of taking the higher road - do so here where you started it and not via PM. YOU started shit here and I simply gave it back better. If you want me to stop, it's real simple, act like an adult yourself and stop attacking first. If you don't like my arguments, fine, but don't call my intelligence into question as a result and ridicule me. I give as good as I get, and better, but I have no problem debating fairly when others do too.

But please, stop with the passive aggressive bullshit, and don't contact me privately to stop when YOU start shit.

I suggested that your outrage at the actions in Texas was more appropriate for a kindergartener...and in reply, you let loose and claimed that I had repeatedly lied about my past...

I stand by my assessment, and yours is without merit or reason.

[Yurt]

MFM - if you suddenly want me to stop with my flaming and give the appearance of taking the higher road - do so here where you started it and not via PM. YOU started shit here and I simply gave it back better. If you want me to stop, it's real simple, act like an adult yourself and stop attacking first. If you don't like my arguments, fine, but don't call my intelligence into question as a result and ridicule me. I give as good as I get, and better, but I have no problem debating fairly when others do too.

But please, stop with the passive aggressive bullshit, and don't contact me privately to stop when YOU start shit.

Now that is the truth. I hate it when people start stuff and then try to hide it via PM.

[retiredman]

Fine, then I'm merely pointing out our government breaking the rules, and someone condoning it while condemning ways to reel in voting fraud at the same time.


and as long as the methods chosen to reel in voting fraud do not cost citizens anything out of pocket for the express right to exercise their voting rights, I have no problem whatsoever.

[Yurt]

requiring someone to make sure you are who you say you are is NOT a poll tax

[jimnyc]

I suggested that your outrage at the actions in Texas was more appropriate for a kindergartener...and in reply, you let loose and claimed that I had repeatedly lied about my past...

I stand by my assessment, and yours is without merit or reason.

So a taxpayer outraged over fraudulent voting by our government is acting like a child in kindergarten?

Would it be appropriate of me to proclaim you are acting like a pre-schooler because you don't approve of photo ID requirements at the polls?

You're an insulting prick with those who have an opinion that differs from yours, but then you cry like my little bitch when someone insults you in return.

[jimnyc]

and as long as the methods chosen to reel in voting fraud do not cost citizens anything out of pocket for the express right to exercise their voting rights, I have no problem whatsoever.

Crying like a little bitch because Americans want to ensure there is no fraudulent voting taking place? How very immature of you!

[retiredman]

Crying like a little bitch because Americans want to ensure there is no fraudulent voting taking place? How very immature of you!


I am not crying at all. If Americans think it is so goddamned important for citizens to provide photo IDs before voting, then just provide them to citizens free of charge. what is your problem with that. crybaby?:laugh2:

[jimnyc]

I am not crying at all. If Americans think it is so goddamned important for citizens to provide photo IDs before voting, then just provide them to citizens free of charge. what is your problem with that. crybaby?:laugh2:

Sure, anyone outraged over the mere mention of being asked to prove their identity in order to vote is clearly a little bitch. And who's crying? Me, or the one who was outted once again for being a pathetic liar? It's one thing to be a liar, but I can't think of a single thing worse than lying about being a man of the cloth, or being a member of the military.

[Yurt]

I am not crying at all. If Americans think it is so goddamned important for citizens to provide photo IDs before voting, then just provide them to citizens free of charge. what is your problem with that. crybaby?:laugh2:

AGAIN:

what is something that you would find to be not a poll tax that would show those in the poll stations that you are who you say you are?


given we all don't live in the same small town as you.

[retiredman]

AGAIN:

what is something that you would find to be not a poll tax that would show those in the poll stations that you are who you say you are?


given we all don't live in the same small town as you.
a free photo ID

[retiredman]

Sure, anyone outraged over the mere mention of being asked to prove their identity in order to vote is clearly a little bitch. And who's crying? Me, or the one who was outted once again for being a pathetic liar? It's one thing to be a liar, but I can't think of a single thing worse than lying about being a man of the cloth, or being a member of the military.


I have never suggested I was a man of the cloth, only that I had preached sermons on several occasions - and I'll preach one on this Sunday for that matter - and I am a proud navy veteran and would ask that you prove your claims that I am somehow LYING about that.

I have said over and over again, I have no problems with photo ID's being required for voting as long as those citizens who do not have or need them for some purpose other than voting are provided them free of charge.

[Yurt]

a free photo ID

what is "free?" you know for a fact nothing is free. taxpayer dollars. what is free to one, is not free to another. with that said, if you can't afford a $7 reduced fee card, then you can apply for a "free" one. that should reduce your worries..... by a large percent.

[jimnyc]

I'm done with you, little boy from maine. You aren't even worthy of my flames. You've only proven once again that when faced in a debate with logic that goes above your skillset, you resort to little games, then try to cover it up and play nice in private. Go ahead and have the last say, you've earned it from my own flaming words, but I no longer have a desire to step into the pigpen.

[retiredman]

I can't think of a single thing worse than lying about being a man of the cloth, or being a member of the military.

and if you could prove either one of those slanderous claims, you would have done so long ago.... as it is, it's just more gum flapping from the queen of it.

really pathetic bringing up stuff that has absolutely no bearing on the topic just to smear your opponent. weak. really weak.:laugh2:

[retiredman]

I'm done with you, little boy from maine. You aren't even worthy of my flames. You've only proven once again that when faced in a debate with logic that goes above your skillset, you resort to little games, then try to cover it up and play nice in private. Go ahead and have the last say, you've earned it from my own flaming words, but I no longer have a desire to step into the pigpen.

I think I logically dealt with both the voter ID issue and the Texas legislature issue....

where my lying about being a "man of the cloth" or about being in the military comes from, is really just desperate obfuscation from a guy who lets his emotions do the typing.

[retiredman]

what is "free?" you know for a fact nothing is free. taxpayer dollars. what is free to one, is not free to another. with that said, if you can't afford a $7 reduced fee card, then you can apply for a "free" one. that should reduce your worries..... by a large percent.

If I do not have a photo ID for whatever reason, I should be able to apply for - and receive - a free photo ID regardless of my ability to afford $7.

what is the republican's terrible phobia about that?

[jimnyc]

I think I logically dealt with both the voter ID issue and the Texas legislature issue....

where my lying about being a "man of the cloth" or about being in the military comes from, is really just desperate obfuscation from a guy who lets his emotions do the typing.

One last reply...

Anyone who reads these threads can see that I responded logically, and politely - then you started in with the insults about being in kindergarten because you disagreed with my assessment of how they performed their voting duties in the Texas legislature.

Sure, I let my emotions do the typing, just like I wear my emotions on my sleeve in real life, and I don't pretend to hide that fact. But don't try to play it off as if you're innocent, because you're not. In fact, you're worse, because you can't even be a man about it like me and just admit things. You play your little games, get called on it, start your mouth, get it in return, then you start crying for mercy via PM's. And don't try to claim this isn't your MO as many have said the same about you. If you were capable of debating like an adult from the get go, then things would never turn out like this. But don't blame me - it's like blaming the bully for kicking your ass after you poke him with a stick.

Now I'm done. The floor is all yours.

[retiredman]

One last reply...

Anyone who reads these threads can see that I responded logically, and politely - then you started in with the insults about being in kindergarten because you disagreed with my assessment of how they performed their voting duties in the Texas legislature.

Sure, I let my emotions do the typing, just like I wear my emotions on my sleeve in real life, and I don't pretend to hide that fact. But don't try to play it off as if you're innocent, because you're not. In fact, you're worse, because you can't even be a man about it like me and just admit things. You play your little games, get called on it, start your mouth, get it in return, then you start crying for mercy via PM's. And don't try to claim this isn't your MO as many have said the same about you. If you were capable of debating like an adult from the get go, then things would never turn out like this. But don't blame me - it's like blaming the bully for kicking your ass after you poke him with a stick.

Now I'm done. The floor is all yours.

I called you a kindergarterner...and then go read how you replied.....

I have never denied referring to your knowledge of how legislatures work as being akin to a kindergarterner....I still stand by that assessment.

If you think that such an assessment deserves the sort of shit you rained down on me after that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

and it is really sort of pathetic that you would mischaracterize my PM thusly.... what I said was:

"this frothing at the mouth is unbecoming...and your attacks - again - on my military service are completely unwarranted.

take a deep breath and calm down."
now...from MY perspective, someone who tried to call THAT "crying for mercy" has some sort of a complex.

[Yurt]

If I do not have a photo ID for whatever reason, I should be able to apply for - and receive - a free photo ID regardless of my ability to afford $7.

what is the republican's terrible phobia about that?

so democrats don't care about photo id at the voting polls?

[jimnyc]

As long as you're into revealing what you wrote in PM's, why not reveal what you wrote to me the last time this happened, when you pleaded with me to back off of you, or the time you claimed to want to throw an olive branch? And am I wrong in stating I am far from the only one you have gotten shitty with in public, only to go private and try to change things, only to reveal your true self again within minutes in public? How many people do you have to do this with before your words turn to shit?

And I stand by my assessment that you're a no good fucking liar. I don't NEED to prove what you say is true, that's up to you. Your own actions here show more proof of a man who doesn't know what church is, and of a pussy that couldn't handle the military. Who in their right mind would want a piece of shit like you delivering a sermon? Seriously, look at the garbage you write on these boards. Do you call those in the church "sheep fuckers" that you disagree with?

[retiredman]

As long as you're into revealing what you wrote in PM's, why not reveal what you wrote to me the last time this happened, when you pleaded with me to back off of you, or the time you claimed to want to throw an olive branch? And am I wrong in stating I am far from the only one you have gotten shitty with in public, only to go private and try to change things, only to reveal your true self again within minutes in public? How many people do you have to do this with before your words turn to shit?

And I stand by my assessment that you're a no good fucking liar. I don't NEED to prove what you say is true, that's up to you. Your own actions here show more proof of a man who doesn't know what church is, and of a pussy that couldn't handle the military. Who in their right mind would want a piece of shit like you delivering a sermon? Seriously, look at the garbage you write on these boards. Do you call those in the church "sheep fuckers" that you disagree with?

I really have no intention of copying and pasting the text from every PM I have ever written...I only posted that one to prove what a lying sack of self-important shit you are to claim that my PM was crying for mercy.

Like I said..... I called you a kindergartener because of your apparently infantile understanding of how state legislatures work. I stand by that....

then look at the delightfully mature way you responded to that.

And after you HAD over-reacted, I discretly wrote the PM that suggested that you were over the top.... but rather than think about that...and realize that your response had been anything but measured or proporttional, you bulled right ahead.... very classy.

And again.... to sit behind the safety of your computer monitor and call a veteran a liar is pretty easy to do - any half-assed pussy can do it and you have proven that quite nicely.

And I would suggest you take up your claims of their insanity with the board of deacons - and the minister - of my church....

[jimnyc]

And again.... to sit behind the safety of your computer monitor and call a veteran a liar is pretty easy to do - any half-assed pussy can do it and you have proven that quite nicely.

And I would suggest you take up your claims of their insanity with the board of deacons - and the minister - of my church....

You're calling out the wrong man! Check your PM's...

[BoogyMan]

I can no longer resist the urge and have to ask. Liberals, why do you reject the need to know if the person who is casting a vote is really who they say they are and that they have a legal right to that vote? Why?

Lets not dance around it any longer, pony up some real answers guys.

[jimnyc]

And again.... to sit behind the safety of your computer monitor and call a veteran a liar is pretty easy to do - any half-assed pussy can do it and you have proven that quite nicely.

Ok, MFM, this half assed pussy proved quite nicely that he's willing to say things from outside the keyboard. Now that you called me out, let's see what you'll do.

[retiredman]

Ok, MFM, this half assed pussy proved quite nicely that he's willing to say things from outside the keyboard. Now that you called me out, let's see what you'll do.

jim.

grow up. you e-penis is, no doubt, huge....but anyone who would give out their telephone number to an unknown entity on the internet is not really thinking very straight.

I say again...call down, young man... really.

[jimnyc]

jim.

grow up. you e-penis is, no doubt, huge....but anyone who would give out their telephone number to an unknown entity on the internet is not really thinking very straight.

I say again...call down, young man... really.

I said what needed to be said. I proved I'm more than a loudmouth behind a keyboard. I laid the cards on the table and you quit the game before it started. I rest my case and am NOW done with you. Kind ironic that it was ME who you called the half assed pussy though.

[OCA]

Sure, anyone outraged over the mere mention of being asked to prove their identity in order to vote is clearly a little bitch. And who's crying? Me, or the one who was outted once again for being a pathetic liar? It's one thing to be a liar, but I can't think of a single thing worse than lying about being a man of the cloth, or being a member of the military.


Finally! Someone who has seen the light like me! This pile of shit never served 1 day in the U.S. military........not 1 fucking day, they don't take piece of shits.

Requiring i.d. at the polling in today's day and age of low morality in America is the only logical thing to do. never served in the military boy objects to a fee because requiring a fee to get a pic i.d. would eliminate a large chunk of Demo voters, voters who are by and large underachievers.

[retiredman]

I said what needed to be said. I proved I'm more than a loudmouth behind a keyboard. I laid the cards on the table and you quit the game before it started. I rest my case and am NOW done with you. Kind ironic that it was ME who you called the half assed pussy though.

If you are suggesting that it takes putting one's family in jeopardy to avoid such a moniker, I would disagree.

I might call you from a payphone sometime though.

or maybe I'll just scratch your phone number on men's room walls preceded by" "For a good time call: ":laugh2:

[OCA]

a free photo ID

Why does everything have to be a fucking handout to you people? Should drivers licenses be free to? Car registration?

What the fuck is wrong with 7 bucks? And if that is considered a poll tax than i'm an advocate of a poll tax if it will weed out people who are not intelligent enough to be able to afford 7 bucks for a pic i.d.

[retiredman]

because requiring a fee to get a pic i.d. would eliminate a large chunk of Demo voters.

and that is the reason why you want the ID cards.... it has nothing to do with fraud, it has to do with winning elections.

thanks for proving my point.:laugh2:

[retiredman]

Why does everything have to be a fucking handout to you people? Should drivers licenses be free to? Car registration?

What the fuck is wrong with 7 bucks? And if that is considered a poll tax than i'm an advocate of a poll tax if it will weed out people who are not intelligent enough to be able to afford 7 bucks for a pic i.d.

no. absolutely not. driver's licenses should cost money...so should car registration.

What is wrong with seven bucks? It is a poll tax, that is what is wrong.

and intelligence is hardly directly proportional to wealth.... the mere fact that you are using a computer which I assume someone in your family was able to afford is proof of that!

[OCA]

I have never suggested I was a man of the cloth, only that I had preached sermons on several occasions - and I'll preach one on this Sunday for that matter - and I am a proud navy veteran and would ask that you prove your claims that I am somehow LYING about that.

I have said over and over again, I have no problems with photo ID's being required for voting as long as those citizens who do not have or need them for some purpose other than voting are provided them free of charge.

Why don't you scan some induc docs? Oh thats right, the bullshit about internet goons, ever heard about white out?

[jimnyc]

If you are suggesting that it takes putting one's family in jeopardy to avoid such a moniker, I would disagree.

I might call you from a payphone sometime though.

or maybe I'll just scratch your phone number on men's room walls preceded by" "For a good time call: ":laugh2:

In other words, you're not only a fucking liar, you're a pussy too. And you claim to have been in the military? LOL What would you do if the enemy came towards you, give them bogus contact info and hide under a table?

Face it, you tried to make me out to be an "internet tough guy" from behind my keyboard, but when I offered to show you that wasn't the case you ran like a little girl.

[OCA]

If I do not have a photo ID for whatever reason, I should be able to apply for - and receive - a free photo ID regardless of my ability to afford $7.

what is the republican's terrible phobia about that?

Because there should be a minimum intelligence requirement to vote and one of the requirements would be that at a certain point you would have 7 bucks for an i.d.

[Sir Evil]

or maybe I'll just scratch your phone number on men's room walls preceded by" "For a good time call: ":laugh2:

Would that be right next to the one that says call your wife for a quickie?

:laugh:


What a spineless worm.

[jimnyc]

Because there should be a minimum intelligence requirement

Oh, sweet Jesus, don't get him riled up now! That would eliminate him and his entire ilk!

[OCA]

One last reply...

Anyone who reads these threads can see that I responded logically, and politely - then you started in with the insults about being in kindergarten because you disagreed with my assessment of how they performed their voting duties in the Texas legislature.

Sure, I let my emotions do the typing, just like I wear my emotions on my sleeve in real life, and I don't pretend to hide that fact. But don't try to play it off as if you're innocent, because you're not. In fact, you're worse, because you can't even be a man about it like me and just admit things. You play your little games, get called on it, start your mouth, get it in return, then you start crying for mercy via PM's. And don't try to claim this isn't your MO as many have said the same about you. If you were capable of debating like an adult from the get go, then things would never turn out like this. But don't blame me - it's like blaming the bully for kicking your ass after you poke him with a stick.

Now I'm done. The floor is all yours.

He did the same thing with me...................I told him to go piss on his self.

[retiredman]

Why don't you scan some induc docs? Oh thats right, the bullshit about internet goons, ever heard about white out?

what would that prove?

and quite frankly, I really don't have any induction docs....I raised my hand in Tecumseh Court on June 26th 1968 and if I received any documentation of it, it is long since gone.

[retiredman]

In other words, you're not only a fucking liar, you're a pussy too. And you claim to have been in the military? LOL What would you do if the enemy came towards you, give them bogus contact info and hide under a table?

Face it, you tried to make me out to be an "internet tough guy" from behind my keyboard, but when I offered to show you that wasn't the case you ran like a little girl.


you called me a LIAR for saying I had served in the military. How the hell could you ever know that? I think that makes you an internet tough guy who slanders others without any fear of facing any real consequences.

Jim...you are not my ENEMY...you are some words on my computer screen... why would you think that anything you could say to me would cause me to go out of my way in any way to gain redress?

The mere fact that you called my service into question with no information is proof enough of your swagger. Swagger on, big boy.... swagger on.

[JohnDoe]

I can no longer resist the urge and have to ask. Liberals, why do you reject the need to know if the person who is casting a vote is really who they say they are and that they have a legal right to that vote? Why?

Lets not dance around it any longer, pony up some real answers guys.Let me throw this back at ya for a second or two....

Why do you think that having an id to say that you are who you say you are when you go in to the polls is important to stop voter fraud?

do you think that illegals that are registered to vote don't have a picture id?

or do you think this will somehow stop illegals from voting?

Because it WON'T....they already have driver's licenses....or other forms of an id with a pic on it....

Do you think that it will stop people from voting in a dead man's place?

picture id's are a dime a dozen and can be forged easily and no one pays that much attention to them at the polls that do require them AND MOST ALL VOTING in a dead man's place is a coordinated effort from someone from within the system that has gathered the names and addresses of the dead and then uses ABSENTEE VOTING to vote in the dead man's spot.

So, WHAT IS IT that makes you think that having an id at the polls is going to do a damn thing about voter fraud?

So basically this boils down to making everyone in the USA get a new id, a national id card with a chip in it of biometrics of some sort to verify that you are who you say you are in order to satisfy you and i find a national id card with the gvt in control of it unacceptable as Ron Paul had noted in the speech of his that I have posted.


What is it that makes you against taking care of fraud in another manner, like the ones that I have suggested?

Is this all about disenfranchising the poor from voting or is it about stopping fraud, or is it about in the guise of a secure vote, forcing all of us in to a National id card?

Why not just tattoo our own citizenship with a number on our right hand or forehead? or implant a chip in us? That's next imo.



jd

[jimnyc]

I'm done sullying this thread or the board with my issue with you. I'll save others from my rants and say what I have to say via PM.