The End of America As We Know It

[82Marine89]

"This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang but a whimper." -- T. S. Eliot

Like most conservatives, I am an optimist with an unshakable faith in the United States of America and the benevolence of a just God who looks down upon us.

Yet and still, the lack of seriousness our politicians and much of our populace display towards the grave issues we face as a nation has grown to such an extent that it may become a threat to this country's very survival in the coming years.

Despite the fact that we have a national debt that exceeds 9 trillion dollars, an amount that comes out to almost $30,000 for every man, woman, and child in the United States -- there are screams of outrage if the rate of growth in any of this country's entitlement programs is cut and there are massive pushes to hand out even more goodies, not to the poor, but to the middle-class. Meanwhile, Social Security will start going into the red for the first time during the next 10 years, Medicare costs are continuing to surge, and more than 8% of our tax dollars ($233 billion in 2007) goes to pay interest on the national debt. Yes, we have gotten away with not paying what we owe for quite a while, but some day the bill will come due and unless something changes, our children may not have the money to pay our debts.

Then there's illegal immigration. We have 12-20 million foreigners who have entered our country illegally and we have hundreds of thousands more pouring over the borders each year. Many of these illegals are poorly educated, don't speak English, have no loyalty to or respect for America, commit identity fraud, ignore deportation orders from judges, don't pay taxes, and have children in this country so they can use them to collect welfare and food stamps. In parts of the nation, illegals are also at the root of crime waves, are overcrowding our schools, and are driving up car insurance rates and running hospitals into the ground.

My friends, if we don't have a border and enforce it, eventually, we're not going to have a country. The Roman Empire found that out the hard way and for that matter, so did the Indians when our ancestors arrived here. A lot of people believe that, "it can't happen here," but that's probably what Mexico said right before all the Americans who moved into Texas declared that they were living in an independent state. Unless we do something to slow the growth of illegal immigration, one day parts of this country may suffer the same fate.

Click for full text... (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JohnHawkins/2007/10/26/the_end_of_america_as_we_know_it?page=full&comments=true)

[JohnDoe]

the interest on debt payment in 2006 was $406 billion ....


In Fiscal Year 2006, the U. S. Government spent $406 Billion of your money on interest payments* to the holders of the National Debt.

http://www.federalbudget.com/

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2006/11/interest-on-national-debt.html


it's even worse than this guy's calculations!

[red states rule]

and what have the Dems offered a ssolutions?

Higher taxes, more benefits for llegals, more spending on government programs, and open borders

[82Marine89]

and what have the Dems offered a ssolutions?

Higher taxes, more benefits for llegals, more spending on government programs, and open borders

Not just the dems, but the pubbies as well. All I want is my country back. Is that to much to ask?

[OCA]

Not just the dems, but the pubbies as well. All I want is my country back. Is that to much to ask?

No, its not too much to ask but as long as Repubs and Demos are two peas in a pod then you ain't ever gonna get it back.

[red states rule]

Not just the dems, but the pubbies as well. All I want is my country back. Is that to much to ask?

At least Pres Bush tried to solve the SS problem, but Dems and some Republicans balked

Tax cuts are brining in more revenue and the annual deficit is dropping

Illeagls are invading our country and so far Dems seem to welcome them, while most Republicans oppose the lax enforcement of our laws

No, it is not asking to much

[stephanie]

I'm afraid it's too late..

[red states rule]

I'm afraid it's too late..

It is never to late to do the right thing.

Our entitlement society has to be changed

[stephanie]

I ran across this yesterday and saved it..I'm beginning to see it happen..

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about “The Fall of The Athenian Republic” some 2,000 years prior.

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

[82Marine89]

At least Pres Bush tried to solve the SS problem, but Dems and some Republicans balked

Tax cuts are brining in more revenue and the annual deficit is dropping

Illeagls are invading our country and so far Dems seem to welcome them, while most Republicans oppose the lax enforcement of our laws

No, it is not asking to much

I like reading your posts, but sometimes you seem to be a Republican apologist. The problem lies at their feet as well. Actually, they are probably more to blame than the dems. They controlled congress and had a pubbie POTUS and still spent like drunken sailors. They didn't listen to us until after we removed them from power.

[red states rule]

I like reading your posts, but sometimes you seem to be a Republican apologist. The problem lies at their feet as well. Actually, they are probably more to blame than the dems. They controlled congress and had a pubbie POTUS and still spent like drunken sailors. They didn't listen to us until after we removed them from power.

I agree with you. I said Republicnas got what was coming to them in 06

But Dems are worse then the previous Congress when it comes to spending, and other issues

[OCA]

I like reading your posts, but sometimes you seem to be a Republican apologist. The problem lies at their feet as well. Actually, they are probably more to blame than the dems. They controlled congress and had a pubbie POTUS and still spent like drunken sailors. They didn't listen to us until after we removed them from power.

You mean Republican hack. He pops out the same old tired cliches all the time when Repuba are as guilty if not more guilty of these things he cries about.

[LiberalNation]

Wars always cost a lot of money especially if you aren't gona raise taxes or cut social programs to compensate.

[OCA]

I agree with you. I said Republicnas got what was coming to them in 06

But Dems are worse then the previous Congress when it comes to spending, and other issues

No, actually they are worse and this was published before the 2006 elections.






Bush spending up to 5 times more than Clinton
Reagan Revolution architect calls it 'era of obese government'




WASHINGTON – Federal spending under the Bush administration has grown five times larger than that during the second term of the Clinton administration, charges a conservative Republican activist in a new book that paints the president as a traitor to his party.
In "Conservatives Betrayed," Richard Viguerie, credited with being one of the architects of the Reagan Revolution, says George W. Bush has set the stage for the punishment of his party by voters.

Viguerie compares spending by the federal government, adjusted for inflation, during the Clinton years vs. the Bush years. In Clinton's first term, federal expenditures rose 4.7 percent. In his second term, they rose 3.7 percent. In the first term of the Bush administration, however, spending rose 19.2 percent.

"If ever there was a case for divided government, here it is," writes Viguerie. "The lesson for many Americans is that today's Republicans cannot be trusted with the keys to both the executive and legislative branches of the federal government."

No matter how you slice it, Viguerie says, Bush makes Clinton look like a spending piker by comparison. For instance, the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University in New York keeps records that show how much the federal government spends on average each year for each person in the country. When this standard of measurement is used, the comparison between the two administrations is even more pronounced.

Cumulative growth in federal expenditures, adjusted for inflation, during the Clinton years actually shrunk by 1.1 percent. Yet, in the Bush first term, it rose 15 percent.

"During President Bush's first five years in office, the federal government increased by $616 billion," Viguerie writes. "That's a mammoth 33 percent jump in the size of the federal government in just his first five years! To put this in perspective, this increase of $616 billion is more than the entire federal budget in Jimmy Carter's last years in office. And conservatives were complaining about Big Government back then! How can Bush, (Dennis) Hastert, (Bill) Frist and company look us in the eye and tell us they are fiscal conservatives when in five short years they increased the already-bloated government by more than the budget for the entire federal government when Ronald Reagan was assuming office?"
Richard Viguerie

Another standard of comparison offered by Viguerie is discretionary domestic spending, adjusted for inflation.

"When we strip away defense, homeland security and entitlements and adjust for inflation, leaving only discretionary domestic spending, George W. Bush has grown the federal government at a faster pace than Lyndon Baines Johnson," Viguerie writes. "His record for profligate spending is outmatched (for the time being) only by another Big Government Republican, Richard Nixon. And when Bush's second term is over, there's every reason to expect that Bush will hold the record as the president who's grown the federal government at its fastest pace in modern times."

The numbers?


Johnson: 4.1 percent

Nixon/Ford: 5 percent

Carter: 1.6 percent

Reagan: 1.4 percent

Bush I: 3.8 percent

Clinton: 2.1 percent

Bush II: 4.8 percent
Viguerie compares the modern presidents on the use of the veto, too. While Johnson used the veto power 30 times, Nixon 43, Ford 66, Carter 31, Reagan 78, Bush I 44 and Clinton 36, Bush didn't use it at all in his first term and has used it just once – for a non-spending issue – in his second term.

"Bush apologists give the excuse that it's harder to veto bills that are passed by your own party," Viguerie writes. "Yet LBJ and Carter each cast 30 or more vetoes while their own party controlled Congress. In fact, the all-time master of the veto was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He used the veto power an incredible 636 times during his four terms – despite having a Democratic Congress with majorities as lopsided as 75-17 in the Senate and 333-89 in the House! Congress overrode his vetoes a mere nine times."

Yet another formula for measuring presidential fiscal responsibility, according to Viguerie, is rescissions. Reagan used rescission power to rescind funds authorized by Congress. Ford rescinded $7.9 billion in spending. Carter rescinded $4.6 billion, Reagan $43.4 billion, Bush I $13.1 billion, Clinton $6.6 billion.

But George W. Bush has not rescinded even $1 in congressional spending.

"The best illustration of the corrupting influence of power on the Republicans is the explosion of pork-barrel spending projects since 2000," says Viguerie.

Viguerie points to a 121 percent increase in pork-barrel earmarks in the first five years of the Bush administration.

"The size of the federal government is the single most important barometer of the health of the American republic," writes Viguerie. "When domestic federal spending goes up, it's a surefire indicator that something is wrong. And the way spending has been increasing under the Bush administration and the Republican Congress shows that things are seriously wrong."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51342

[82Marine89]

Wars always cost a lot of money especially if you aren't gona raise taxes to compensate or cut social programs.

Great! Let's cut social programs.

[LiberalNation]

We wont during an unpopular war, it would kill whatever support it still has. The people would be howling and the reps know this.

[LiberalNation]

I agree with you. I said Republicnas got what was coming to them in

Funny, I remembver you saying they were gona win right up until the american public showed their asses the door. Not that it's changed anything.

[Abbey Marie]

I ran across this yesterday and saved it..I'm beginning to see it happen..

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about “The Fall of The Athenian Republic” some 2,000 years prior.

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

I can see it too, Stephanie.

[Kathianne]

I can see it too, Stephanie.

And so thank the gods we are not a democracy! Kiss and hugs to the Founders.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

And so thank the gods we are not a democracy! Kiss and hugs to the Founders.

AMEN to that.....

But we need to be wary of how people can be swayed by the elected, paying particular attention to the way Venezuela was headed, prior to the citizenry waking up....we almost saw the tipping point of a similar republic to our own.

[avatar4321]

I'm afraid it's too late..

as long as we breath, its never too late.

[Kathianne]

AMEN to that.....

But we need to be wary of how people can be swayed by the elected, paying particular attention to the way Venezuela was headed, prior to the citizenry waking up....we almost saw the tipping point of a similar republic to our own.

yes, ever vigilent.

[stephanie]

And so thank the gods we are not a democracy! Kiss and hugs to the Founders.

I hear what you're saying Kat....But..

“The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

I see us as being here RIGHT NOW...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

[avatar4321]

I hear what you're saying Kat....But..

“The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;

I see us as being here RIGHT NOW...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;

More like right here...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From dependence back into bondage.”

[stephanie]

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;

More like right here...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From dependence back into bondage.”

I was trying not to be that big of a bummer...but you could be right..

[Abbey Marie]

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;

More like right here...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From dependence back into bondage.”

That's where I thought, too.

[avatar4321]

I was trying not to be that big of a bummer...but you could be right..

I don't think its necessarily a bummer. The point of all this is it's a cycle. we are near the bottom of the cycle. Which is always a pain for people to go through. But once they do they return to the top because the hardships at the bottom humble people and they return to God.

If we are to save this nation we need to live the principles Christ taught. Many of which are enshrined in the Constitution.

[stephanie]

I don't think its necessarily a bummer. The point of all this is it's a cycle. we are near the bottom of the cycle. Which is always a pain for people to go through. But once they do they return to the top because the hardships at the bottom humble people and they return to God.

If we are to save this nation we need to live the principles Christ taught. Many of which are enshrined in the Constitution.

Excellent wisdom my dear...:clap::cheers2:


I guess I'm just not so sure that will happen..

[avatar4321]

Excellent wisdom my dear...:clap::cheers2:


I guess I'm just not so sure that will happen..

Well, I am not sure all is lost yet.

BTW I want to point out that the end of the United States as we know it might be a good thing. Obviously not if it involves the elimination of freedom, but the end of the United States as we know it might be the end of corruption and oppression rather than the end of freedom. There are always two sides of the coin.

[red states rule]

No, actually they are worse and this was published before the 2006 elections.






Bush spending up to 5 times more than Clinton
Reagan Revolution architect calls it 'era of obese government'




WASHINGTON – Federal spending under the Bush administration has grown five times larger than that during the second term of the Clinton administration, charges a conservative Republican activist in a new book that paints the president as a traitor to his party.
In "Conservatives Betrayed," Richard Viguerie, credited with being one of the architects of the Reagan Revolution, says George W. Bush has set the stage for the punishment of his party by voters.

Viguerie compares spending by the federal government, adjusted for inflation, during the Clinton years vs. the Bush years. In Clinton's first term, federal expenditures rose 4.7 percent. In his second term, they rose 3.7 percent. In the first term of the Bush administration, however, spending rose 19.2 percent.

"If ever there was a case for divided government, here it is," writes Viguerie. "The lesson for many Americans is that today's Republicans cannot be trusted with the keys to both the executive and legislative branches of the federal government."

No matter how you slice it, Viguerie says, Bush makes Clinton look like a spending piker by comparison. For instance, the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University in New York keeps records that show how much the federal government spends on average each year for each person in the country. When this standard of measurement is used, the comparison between the two administrations is even more pronounced.

Cumulative growth in federal expenditures, adjusted for inflation, during the Clinton years actually shrunk by 1.1 percent. Yet, in the Bush first term, it rose 15 percent.

"During President Bush's first five years in office, the federal government increased by $616 billion," Viguerie writes. "That's a mammoth 33 percent jump in the size of the federal government in just his first five years! To put this in perspective, this increase of $616 billion is more than the entire federal budget in Jimmy Carter's last years in office. And conservatives were complaining about Big Government back then! How can Bush, (Dennis) Hastert, (Bill) Frist and company look us in the eye and tell us they are fiscal conservatives when in five short years they increased the already-bloated government by more than the budget for the entire federal government when Ronald Reagan was assuming office?"
Richard Viguerie

Another standard of comparison offered by Viguerie is discretionary domestic spending, adjusted for inflation.

"When we strip away defense, homeland security and entitlements and adjust for inflation, leaving only discretionary domestic spending, George W. Bush has grown the federal government at a faster pace than Lyndon Baines Johnson," Viguerie writes. "His record for profligate spending is outmatched (for the time being) only by another Big Government Republican, Richard Nixon. And when Bush's second term is over, there's every reason to expect that Bush will hold the record as the president who's grown the federal government at its fastest pace in modern times."

The numbers?


Johnson: 4.1 percent

Nixon/Ford: 5 percent

Carter: 1.6 percent

Reagan: 1.4 percent

Bush I: 3.8 percent

Clinton: 2.1 percent

Bush II: 4.8 percent
Viguerie compares the modern presidents on the use of the veto, too. While Johnson used the veto power 30 times, Nixon 43, Ford 66, Carter 31, Reagan 78, Bush I 44 and Clinton 36, Bush didn't use it at all in his first term and has used it just once – for a non-spending issue – in his second term.

"Bush apologists give the excuse that it's harder to veto bills that are passed by your own party," Viguerie writes. "Yet LBJ and Carter each cast 30 or more vetoes while their own party controlled Congress. In fact, the all-time master of the veto was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He used the veto power an incredible 636 times during his four terms – despite having a Democratic Congress with majorities as lopsided as 75-17 in the Senate and 333-89 in the House! Congress overrode his vetoes a mere nine times."

Yet another formula for measuring presidential fiscal responsibility, according to Viguerie, is rescissions. Reagan used rescission power to rescind funds authorized by Congress. Ford rescinded $7.9 billion in spending. Carter rescinded $4.6 billion, Reagan $43.4 billion, Bush I $13.1 billion, Clinton $6.6 billion.

But George W. Bush has not rescinded even $1 in congressional spending.

"The best illustration of the corrupting influence of power on the Republicans is the explosion of pork-barrel spending projects since 2000," says Viguerie.

Viguerie points to a 121 percent increase in pork-barrel earmarks in the first five years of the Bush administration.

"The size of the federal government is the single most important barometer of the health of the American republic," writes Viguerie. "When domestic federal spending goes up, it's a surefire indicator that something is wrong. And the way spending has been increasing under the Bush administration and the Republican Congress shows that things are seriously wrong."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51342

Actually IOCA, only 3 spending bills have been approved so far - and the pork is way up

I hate to see the final numbers after the remaining bils are passed and the pork flows into them

[stephanie]

Well, I am not sure all is lost yet.

BTW I want to point out that the end of the United States as we know it might be a good things. Obviously not if it involves the elimination of freedom, but the end of the United States as we know it might be the end of corruption and oppression rather than the end of freedom. There are always two sides of the coin.

Now that is where I have to disagree with you..

The corruption..(with BOTH of the parties of our government is so bad), and the lying, cheating, stealing has become so easily for a lot of the people... that is seems as if it is a second nature for most..(look how they forgave a lying President, who flat out broke the law... of our United States)...

We are on a downward spiral...and I don't see us coming out of it..

[red states rule]

Now that is where I have to disagree with you..

The corruption..(with BOTH of the parties of our government is so bad), and the lying, cheating, stealing has become so easily for a lot of the people... that is seems as if it is a second nature for most..(look how they forgave a lying President, who flat out broke the law... of our United States)...

We are on a downward spiral...and I don't see us coming out of it..

Be of good cheer stephanie. It is never to late for people to do the right thing.

[actsnoblemartin]

very well said man.

hope is what carries us


Be of good cheer stephanie. It is never to late for people to do the right thing.

[red states rule]

very well said man.

hope is what carries us

If you give up - they win

If you keep fighting the good fight - we might get what we want

[Pale Rider]

I'm afraid it's too late..

Two words... "civil war." You're starting to hear them more frequently these days, and the worse things get, the more often you'll hear them. If this country comes to the point of collapse, you'll first see war. There will still be enough true patriots here to fight for and rescue our country. Our military might will be with us. We'll get it back, and kick the sons a bitches out that are responsible for trying to destroy it. That will include liberals. Sounds like fun doesn't it.

[OCA]

Actually IOCA, only 3 speniding bills have been approved so fat - and the pork is way up

I hate to see the final numbers after the remaining bils are passed and the prok flows into them

Denial ain't a river in Egypt!

So sad to see one deny facts.

[MtnBiker]

Two words... "civil war." You're starting to hear them more frequently these days, and the worse things get, the more often you'll hear them. If this country comes to the point of collapse, you'll first see war. There will still be enough true patriots here to fight for and rescue our country. Our military might will be with us. We'll get it back, and kick the sons a bitches out that are responsible for trying to destroy it. That will include liberals. Sounds like fun doesn't it.

Where will the battlefield be?

[LiberalNation]

Two words... "civil war." You're starting to hear them more frequently these days, and the worse things get, the more often you'll hear them. If this country comes to the point of collapse, you'll first see war. There will still be enough true patriots here to fight for and rescue our country. Our military might will be with us. We'll get it back, and kick the sons a bitches out that are responsible for trying to destroy it. That will include liberals. Sounds like fun doesn't it.

No it's sounds like the end of America and a facist takeover. Kick all the "liberals" ie people who don't totally agree with us.

[red states rule]

Denial ain't a river in Egypt!

So sad to see one deny facts.

Oh?

Here is one link on only one bill that passed in 2007

Senate war bill features $20B in pork

WASHINGTON (Map, News) - Like their counterparts in the House, the Senate has larded its version of an “emergency” war spending bill with nearly $20 billion in pork-barrel outlays, including $100 million for the two major political parties’ 2008 presidential conventions.

The $121 billion bill includes $102 billion for the troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as $14 billion for Hurricane Katrina aid and more than $4 billion for “emergency farm relief.”

“Congress will have to make the choice between booze and balloons or bullets and body armor,” John Hart, a spokesman for Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., told The Examiner on Monday. Coburn and a handful of other senators hope to shame their colleagues into stripping the pork out of the war spending bill.

http://www.examiner.com/a-640957~Senate__emergency__war_bill_has_almost__20_ billion_in_domestic_spending_tacked_onto_it.html




and in the $517 billion spending bill just passed.......

snip

It also contains about 9,000 pet projects sought by lawmakers, at a cost of more than $7 billion, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington-based group that fights such projects. Democrats said the cost of earmarks was down more than 40 percent from 2006 levels and they touted disclosure rules that added greater transparency to the much-maligned earmarking process.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=116&pid=0&sid=1270957&page=2


Please tell us again how Dems are cutting the pork. This is the pork in 2 spending billls OCA

[avatar4321]

Two words... "civil war." You're starting to hear them more frequently these days, and the worse things get, the more often you'll hear them. If this country comes to the point of collapse, you'll first see war. There will still be enough true patriots here to fight for and rescue our country. Our military might will be with us. We'll get it back, and kick the sons a bitches out that are responsible for trying to destroy it. That will include liberals. Sounds like fun doesn't it.

Not really. But I do see us heading to civil war in the future unless there is a change in the status quo.

[avatar4321]

No it's sounds like the end of America and a facist takeover. Kick all the "liberals" ie people who don't totally agree with us.

You mean the people trying to silence us when we raise questions that disagree with their secular agenda? Those liberals?

I am sick and tired of you liberals trying to oppress people and then whining when people dont put up with it. Of course we are going to fight back. We dont like people taking our freedom away

[red states rule]

Not really. But I do see us heading to civil war in the future unless there is a change in the status quo.

How often has the kook left screamed for the "blue states" to secede because they lost the last Presidential election?

[avatar4321]

How often has the kook left screamed for the "blue states" to secede because they lost the last Presidential election?

two or three times. But secession movements are growing louder on both sides of the isle.

[red states rule]

two or three times. But secession movements are growing louder on both sides of the isle.

I do not know what the future holds. There are kooks on both sides, but the hate seems to be coming more from the kook left, and they are feeding the division of the nation

[actsnoblemartin]

the kook left is far worse, just look on college campuses


I do not know what the future holds. There are kooks on both sides, but the hate seems to be coming more from the kook left, and they are feeding the division of the nation

[red states rule]

the kook left is far worse, just look on college campuses

In a place where free and open discussion is encouraged - only liberal points of views are allowed

If you try and express a conservative POV you are smeared, insulted, or the liberal instructor gives you an "F" in the course

[actsnoblemartin]

perfectly said, it is absolutely true, so much for diversity huh?


In a place where free and open discussion is encouraged - only liberal points of views are allowed

If you try and express a conservative POV you are smeared, insulted, or the liberal instructor gives you an "F" in the course

[red states rule]

perfectly said, it is absolutely true, so much for diversity huh?

Sure there is diversity - as long as liberalism is the diversity

[actsnoblemartin]

yeah liberal and more liberal :laugh2:


Sure there is diversity - as long as liberalism is the diversity

[red states rule]

yeah liberal and more liberal :laugh2:

no Acts, it is liberal, kook liberal, and moonbat liberal

[JohnDoe]

Two words... "civil war." You're starting to hear them more frequently these days, and the worse things get, the more often you'll hear them. If this country comes to the point of collapse, you'll first see war. There will still be enough true patriots here to fight for and rescue our country. Our military might will be with us. We'll get it back, and kick the sons a bitches out that are responsible for trying to destroy it. That will include liberals. Sounds like fun doesn't it.


So, as mtnbiker asked, where will the battlefield be?

And we killed off 600,000 Americans in the first civil war against eachother....what do you reccommend this time around...10 MILLION killed off? 20 million? 50 million? What will satisfy you? All liberals? 150 million?

And do you think there would even be a country left after the fascists R's take over, as you wish?

geez louise Pale and others that would even think about having a civil war here? sick, sick, sick..... imho.

jd

[red states rule]

So, as mtnbiker asked, where will the battlefield be?

And we killed off 600,000 Americans in the first civil war against eachother....what do you reccommend this time around...10 MILLION killed off? 20 million? 50 million? What will satisfy you? All liberals? 150 million?

And do you think there would even be a country left after the fascists R's take over, as you wish?

geez louise Pale and others that would even think about having a civil war here? sick, sick, sick..... imho.

jd

so now we are "fascists"?

I have yet to see any Bush haters taken off to jail, or any of the liberal media shut down

The kook left is getting their message out just fine

[JohnDoe]

so now we are "fascists"?

I have yet to see any Bush haters taken off to jail, or any of the liberal media shut down

The kook left is getting their message out just fineDo you support having a Civil War, so that your side of the aisle can have everything run the way they want in this country....with the wealthiest ruling the minions, the capitalists ruling the country? Do you want to kill Liberals off so that you don't have to deal with them?

I would call that fascist and in the least just pure evil.

So, do you support having a civil war to get rid of me and my family and my neighbors or not?

This is what has been said here....and perhaps this is in gest or perhaps it hasn't been thought through regarding the millions upon millions of American people that you would have to kill in order to have your way...?

It sounds awful to me RSR....and I don't think anyone should even joke about it... :(

jd

[avatar4321]

So, as mtnbiker asked, where will the battlefield be?

And we killed off 600,000 Americans in the first civil war against eachother....what do you reccommend this time around...10 MILLION killed off? 20 million? 50 million? What will satisfy you? All liberals? 150 million?

And do you think there would even be a country left after the fascists R's take over, as you wish?

geez louise Pale and others that would even think about having a civil war here? sick, sick, sick..... imho.

jd

nothing sick about it. In fact, it doesnt take a genius to realize that the same situations that lead up to the civil war are developing in our own society. No one has to advocate civil war to realize that is exactly where we are heading if things dont change.

[OCA]

Oh?

Here is one link on only one bill that passed in 2007

Senate war bill features $20B in pork

WASHINGTON (Map, News) - Like their counterparts in the House, the Senate has larded its version of an “emergency” war spending bill with nearly $20 billion in pork-barrel outlays, including $100 million for the two major political parties’ 2008 presidential conventions.

The $121 billion bill includes $102 billion for the troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as $14 billion for Hurricane Katrina aid and more than $4 billion for “emergency farm relief.”

“Congress will have to make the choice between booze and balloons or bullets and body armor,” John Hart, a spokesman for Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., told The Examiner on Monday. Coburn and a handful of other senators hope to shame their colleagues into stripping the pork out of the war spending bill.

http://www.examiner.com/a-640957~Senate__emergency__war_bill_has_almost__20_ billion_in_domestic_spending_tacked_onto_it.html




and in the $517 billion spending bill just passed.......

snip

It also contains about 9,000 pet projects sought by lawmakers, at a cost of more than $7 billion, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington-based group that fights such projects. Democrats said the cost of earmarks was down more than 40 percent from 2006 levels and they touted disclosure rules that added greater transparency to the much-maligned earmarking process.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=116&pid=0&sid=1270957&page=2


Please tell us again how Dems are cutting the pork. This is the pork in 2 spending billls OCA

You didn't read my link did you? The stats were there, it was pre 2006 mid terms and it shows that Bush has outspent all of his predecessors from the last 30 or so years.................by far.

[OCA]

Not really. But I do see us heading to civil war in the future unless there is a change in the status quo.

Voting for Repubs or Demos is voting for the status quo to continue.

[JohnDoe]

nothing sick about it. In fact, it doesnt take a genius to realize that the same situations that lead up to the civil war are developing in our own society. No one has to advocate civil war to realize that is exactly where we are heading if things dont change.

well call me an optimist then, but i do not see it that way....

i don't think killing your political opponent is an option, or a sollution, and would NEVER think it would, or should be a reason in this day and age. And frankly, i am surprised that you think there is any reason to kill millions of other fellow Americans for merely political differences.....that is sickening to the enth degree imo!

So, i guess i differ with you....there is plenty that is wickedly ''sick about it''.

jd

[avatar4321]

well call me an optimist then, but i do not see it that way....

i don't think killing your political opponent is an option, or a sollution, and would NEVER think it would, or should be a reason in this day and age. And frankly, i am surprised that you think there is any reason to kill millions of other fellow Americans for merely political differences.....that is sickening to the enth degree imo!

So, i guess i differ with you....there is plenty that is wickedly ''sick about it''.

jd

it be nice if you actually read what was written instead of impugning our characters simply because you dont like the observations we make.

This is exactly the problem. rather than deal with what faces us you simply attack us to silence us. Its too uncomfortable for you to admit that we are reaching the pinnacle of a political crisis that may shatter our nation. It's exactly this attitude that is going to cause any war between the people.

[JohnDoe]

it be nice if you actually read what was written instead of impugning our characters simply because you dont like the observations we make.

This is exactly the problem. rather than deal with what faces us you simply attack us to silence us. Its too uncomfortable for you to admit that we are reaching the pinnacle of a political crisis that may shatter our nation. It's exactly this attitude that is going to cause any war between the people.

really? WOW! MY attitude on this is enough to make you and others want to kill.....? Amazing.... how interesting....

jd

[Chessplayer]

If you try and express a conservative POV you are smeared, insulted, or the liberal instructor gives you an "F" in the course
Reply With Quote

Thankfully, expressing a liberal point of view doesn't mean you are smeared, insulted, or negative repped into oblivion here on these forums.

[avatar4321]

really? WOW! MY attitude on this is enough to make you and others want to kill.....? Amazing.... how interesting....

jd

Are you just trying to purposely rip everything out of context and read your own prejudices into everything?

No one has advocated killing anyone. You dont really care about that because youd rather pretend that people are advocating the extermination of their political opponents that way your unjustifiable positions can be ignored and dont have to be defended.

Instead, you try to stifle debate with these outrageous statements. As you and others continue to stifle debate rather than focusing on issues and substance, you will alienate more and more of the population until they just get fed up with the whole process and rightly call for revolution. People arent going to put up with you lying and stalling real progress. People are not going to put up with having their freedoms trampled because you would malign them rather than deal with the actual problems facing this nation.

Eventually there will be a breaking point where the people get tired of being oppressed and ignored and that will cause a civil war. It doesnt matter if you like it or not, but it's a fact of life and its being caused by those who are doing exactly what you are doing by refusing to opening and honestly debate and instead would rather just attack others for things they clearly didnt say.

[LiberalNation]

Thankfully, expressing a liberal point of view doesn't mean you are smeared, insulted, or negative repped into oblivion here on these forums.

:clap:

[April15]

Not just the dems, but the pubbies as well. All I want is my country back. Is that to much to ask?At this point in time YES about 25 years late.

[Dilloduck]

At this point in time YES about 25 years late.

So when would be a good time and how do you suggest going about it ? Do you think enough people have enough passion to actually DO something other than observe and comment on it?

[April15]

So when would be a good time and how do you suggest going about it ? Do you think enough people have enough passion to actually DO something other than observe and comment on it?Today would be a good time for a revolution. The problem is organization. I can assure you the electronic media is out for staging an over throw or coup on Washington. Since areas of the nation seem to have pockets of activists on both sides with the same goal it would take a major effort by a few stout individuals willing to die for this nation. Frankly I can't see anything but apathy towards revitalizing the core of America. 30 years ago I couldn't find anyone who thought things would get this bad.
Short a major invasion by a nation on this continent it is just piss and moan.

[Dilloduck]

Today would be a good time for a revolution. The problem is organization. I can assure you the electronic media is out for staging an over throw or coup on Washington. Since areas of the nation seem to have pockets of activists on both sides with the same goal it would take a major effort by a few stout individuals willing to die for this nation. Frankly I can't see anything but apathy towards revitalizing the core of America. 30 years ago I couldn't find anyone who thought things would get this bad.
Short a major invasion by a nation on this continent it is just piss and moan.

agreed

[82Marine89]

Today would be a good time for a revolution. The problem is organization. I can assure you the electronic media is out for staging an over throw or coup on Washington. Since areas of the nation seem to have pockets of activists on both sides with the same goal it would take a major effort by a few stout individuals willing to die for this nation. Frankly I can't see anything but apathy towards revitalizing the core of America. 30 years ago I couldn't find anyone who thought things would get this bad.
Short a major invasion by a nation on this continent it is just piss and moan.

Is it snowing in Hell?

[JohnDoe]

Are you just trying to purposely rip everything out of context and read your own prejudices into everything?

No one has advocated killing anyone. You dont really care about that because youd rather pretend that people are advocating the extermination of their political opponents that way your unjustifiable positions can be ignored and dont have to be defended.

Instead, you try to stifle debate with these outrageous statements. As you and others continue to stifle debate rather than focusing on issues and substance, you will alienate more and more of the population until they just get fed up with the whole process and rightly call for revolution. People arent going to put up with you lying and stalling real progress. People are not going to put up with having their freedoms trampled because you would malign them rather than deal with the actual problems facing this nation.

Eventually there will be a breaking point where the people get tired of being oppressed and ignored and that will cause a civil war. It doesnt matter if you like it or not, but it's a fact of life and its being caused by those who are doing exactly what you are doing by refusing to opening and honestly debate and instead would rather just attack others for things they clearly didnt say.

I can see you have your crystal ball out and very glad to know YOU KNOW what i think or how i think and how i want to make you think and all that garbage that you just rattled off about ME wanting to stifle debate....

When to many of us out there in the world, it is people like you that want to stifle debate and people like you and the politicians that you support that want and have taken our rights and the constitution and the rule of law and basically spit on them....

I have NEVER RUN from a debate on anything in my life.... you don't get much of it here without people throwing out insults, but i definately try my best to debate issues and fully explain my position, like I did with you on romney the other day, yet all you could do is come back with some insult about me passing lies and trying to end the discussion and running away instead of debating me.... on what I had taken the time to post to you... why is that?

Let's debate avatar....not sit there an whine about me not debating... pick any issue that you want and let's discuss it instead of you running away and choosing to call me a liar and someone who is making a civil war being necessary....

me thinks ye protest too much and lack in debating ability or you would bring up issues to debate yourself instead of advocating or shyly supporting a civil war that could kill millions.... and yeah, you probably did not mean it, but so what, you still said it as though it is inevitable....

What is it that makes you HATE democrats so much? What issue is it that naws at you so much that you can only insult the other side of the aisle and never debate a thing? I'm game, I would be happy to discuss your concerns, but please don't try to shut me up because you don't happen to agree with what i think or what i have said and then tell ME that it is me that doesn't want to face issues together.

jd

[gabosaurus]

Which costs the American populace more:
The problems of illegal immigration, or the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq?

How do we expect the Mexicans to stop occupying our country while we continue to occupy someone else's country?

[red states rule]

Is it snowing in Hell?

Has global climate change hit Hell now?

[red states rule]

Do you support having a Civil War, so that your side of the aisle can have everything run the way they want in this country....with the wealthiest ruling the minions, the capitalists ruling the country? Do you want to kill Liberals off so that you don't have to deal with them?

I would call that fascist and in the least just pure evil.

So, do you support having a civil war to get rid of me and my family and my neighbors or not?

This is what has been said here....and perhaps this is in gest or perhaps it hasn't been thought through regarding the millions upon millions of American people that you would have to kill in order to have your way...?

It sounds awful to me RSR....and I don't think anyone should even joke about it... :(

jd

JD, I was repeating the rants from your fellow libs. They are the ones who play the Hitler card - not me

Libs have not lost any of the freedoms they claim that have been lost. They are the ones who say it is time for a revolution - all because they do not get their way in DC

If you want to see examples of wishing death on your political opponents look at your own party.

[red states rule]

BTW JD - here is an example of the liberal media wanting to find common ground with Republicans

Alot of libs will find this artciel perfectly reasonable


Progressives, To Arms!
Forget about Bush—and the middle ground.
By Paul Krugman
Posted Wednesday, Dec. 26, 2007, at 7:53 AM ET

http://www.slate.com/id/2180178/