Lt. Ehren Watada

[jimnyc]

First Lt. Ehren Watada of the Stryker Brigade, U.S. Army, Fort Lewis, refused to obey orders to deploy to Iraq, becoming the first commissioned officer to do so. He says he opposes the war — not all wars, but this one. So do we, but we cannot support his request to be excused from a posting to Iraq.

Soldiers have to go where they are ordered. That is the rule here and everywhere, and for reasons of military necessity. Watada was a volunteer, and knew that when he signed up. He knew about the Iraq war, as well: He signed up in 2003, the year of the U.S. invasion. He also should have known that once one joins the military, one loses the freedom to speak in ways that could damage soldiers' morale — a restriction that includes political criticism of the military's mission. We have seen this apply to generals, which is why their criticism of the war has come from retirees. The rule also applies to lieutenants.

Watada will soon face a general court-martial in front of a military judge and jury. The judge is now deciding whether to include four charges of "conduct unbecoming an officer," which rise out of Watada's political statements, or to try him only on the charge of refusing to go to Iraq. The possible sentence for refusing to deploy is two years; for the political statements, another four years.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorialsopinion/2003515393_watadaed09.html?syndication=rss

[jimnyc]

He claims to have changed his mind, that he now believes the war is illegal. I think he's just a damn coward. I hope he spends a great deal of time behind bars for leaving his fellow troops during a time of war.

[Gaffer]

Hope he gets the full time in Leavenworth. He could have avoided iraq by volunteering for Afganhistan unless he thinks that's an illegal war too. In which case he must be muslim.

[jimnyc]

Hope he gets the full time in Leavenworth. He could have avoided iraq by volunteering for Afganhistan unless he thinks that's an illegal war too. In which case he must be muslim.

IMO, the only thing that adds up is him being a coward. I hope he's afraid of small places surrounded by steel bars.

[Kathianne]

He claims to have changed his mind, that he now believes the war is illegal. I think he's just a damn coward. I hope he spends a great deal of time behind bars for leaving his fellow troops during a time of war.

Yeah, and then there's this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4670149

http://www.marinetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2469028.php

[Gaffer]

Yeah, and then there's this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4670149

http://www.marinetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2469028.php

Yep there are heros and there are scumbags. The scumbag needs to rot in prison. but he'll get all the news coverage while the hero will be forgotten.

[Kathianne]

Yep there are heros and there are scumbags. The scumbag needs to rot in prison. but he'll get all the news coverage while the hero will be forgotten.

I won't forget.

[Gunny]

IMO, the only thing that adds up is him being a coward. I hope he's afraid of small places surrounded by steel bars.

I don't see the coward thing; although, it is not out of the realm of possibility. Poltically-motivated moron is more like it.

If his beliefs are such that he is willing to throw away his career and spend time in prison for it, so be it. While I don't agree with the decision, I can at least respect him standing up for what he believes in and not running off to Canada to wait for Carter to pardon him. THAT is a coward.

[Gaffer]

He's either a chicken shit, a liberal playing a polical card or a muslim. I don't think it has anything to do with convictions.

[darin]

Today, I asked him about his weekend; we made office chit-chat about the weather. :)

[Mr. P]

Today, I asked him about his weekend; we made office chit-chat about the weather. :)

So after working with this guy for many months, what do you think, D? Is it political, moral convection, what? What’s your take? You must have a gut feeling.

[dirt mcgirt]

I think it's conviction. Seems like he really believes that Bush deliberately lied and feels that the war is illegal. Regardless, it doesn't excuse the fact that he took an oath as an officer and joined up after the invasion. Unlike the Iraqi Army, you can't quit when you feel like it and can't choose the wars you want to fight in. His refusal to go means that someone else is going in his place.

[darin]

So after working with this guy for many months, what do you think, D? Is it political, moral convection, what? What’s your take? You must have a gut feeling.

I think he's a cool dude; he and I don't get 'into it' because we need to work together - from what I know about his work ethic and his personality, I think he and I could be friends. As far as his motivation? I'll address that later. :)

[5stringJeff]

Having interacted with him once or twice, I'd say that he seems like a fine person to work with. Unfortunately for him, he decided to make a political issue out of his deployment, and he's going to pay the consequences for his actions.

[Evil]

Unfortunate for you fellas working with him that you already ready some of the sentiments alreay posted, guess it may different when you have to work with the guy. I have read basically the same thing about another soldier, perhaps a strategic claim to try, and escape duty but others that have signed are paying their dues so this guy should get the maximum penalty as far as I am concerned.

[Gunny]

He's either a chicken shit, a liberal playing a polical card or a muslim. I don't think it has anything to do with convictions.

Thing is, it really doesn't matter what it has to do with. He joined voluntarily and he's been taking the pay and benefits. Now when it's his turn to fulfill his part of the agreement, he's refusing.

Military courts are infamous for not giving a damn why without some unusal, mitigating circumstances. Clearly, his personal opinion does not fall under that category.

The fact is he refused to obey a lawful order, and then, speaking as a member of the US military made political statements to the media. The jury of his "peers" will consist of mostly those who have already done at least one tour, so I'm not seeing his getting the sympathy vote.

What I meant to say in my previous post is that I can respect the fact that right or wrong, he is standing accountable for his actions, an almost extinct trait in this country.

I don't respect his decision nor his reasoning for making it, and could care less what his reasoning. I'd vote to max him out.

I'm not sure about the charges. In the Corps, you get one count for each time you refuse to obey the order. I'm sure he refused to obey it more than once before charges were preferred. I'd be willing to be the CoC tried to talk him into doing what he was ordered to do more than once. That would be two years for each count, not two years total, in addition to the four years for the political statement.

Ten years for being a nimrod would work for me.

[5stringJeff]

Unfortunate for you fellas working with him that you already ready some of the sentiments alreay posted, guess it may different when you have to work with the guy. I have read basically the same thing about another soldier, perhaps a strategic claim to try, and escape duty but others that have signed are paying their dues so this guy should get the maximum penalty as far as I am concerned.

Oh, I hope he gets the maximum punishment, for sure. It's shameful that an officer would try and sham out of duty like that just to make a political statement.

[darin]

The biggest problem is this:

He says he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight an illegal war - yet he was not ordered to fight - he was ordered to MOVE. He willingly missed a lawful movement of troops.

[Gunny]

The biggest problem is this:

He says he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight an illegal war - yet he was not ordered to fight - he was ordered to MOVE. He willingly missed a lawful movement of troops.

I know the Marines enforces Art 87 (missing movement). I just wasn't aware if any of the other services do. I believe the Navy does as well. IF so, that's another charge against him.

[darin]

I know the Marines enforces Art 87 (missing movement). I just wasn't aware if any of the other services do. I believe the Navy does as well. IF so, that's another charge against him.

That's the principle charge against him.

[Gunny]

That's the principle charge against him.

I thought it was disobeying a lawful order.:confused:

[darin]

I thought it was disobeying a lawful order.:confused:


A movement order is a lawful order.

[Gunny]

A movement order is a lawful order.

I see. So you're saying the movement itself is violation of an order. My interpretation of Art 87 is missing movement is a violation of Art 87. Art 92 is failure to obey an order.

The Marines hammer you for both as separate charges.

[darin]

I see. So you're saying the movement itself is violation of an order. My interpretation of Art 87 is missing movement is a violation of Art 87. Art 92 is failure to obey an order.

The Marines hammer you for both as separate charges.

He may have been given OTHER lawful orders, too. :)

According to The Army Times:


Watada, 28, is charged with missing movement after refusing to deploy with his unit, the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division. The Army also proceeded with charges of conduct unbecoming an officer for statements he made to journalists and at a veterans convention.

[Mr. P]

He’ll serve time, how much I donno. On the positive the guy hasn’t run to Canada. Gotta respect that.

[pegwinn]

Max him out. If he gets over it will set a really bad precedent.